Jotari Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 So what if TMS was a bit closer to it's original Shin Megami Tensei source material in terms of gameplay by giving you just a single protagonist that recruits enemies by talking to them? And rather than Demons, all the enemies were Fire Emblem characters. I guess another way to look at this would be, What if Heroes was an RPG instead of a Gacha. What characters would you see as being the early game enemies and what characters would you see as being the late game or boss enemies. And more amusingly, what characters do you think could fuse together to make new characters? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interdimensional Observer Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 This sounds fun! If we're limited to Shadow Dragon and Awakening characters, well that greatly narrows the options. But I'll assume we aren't restricted and pretend this game featured characters from every part of it pre-Fates. And that things weren't quite so restrained to all Armors having Axes and all Cavalry having Lances. First, let me imagine some Archetypes/Races/Classes into which all characters are divided.: Lord Lady Lord? Mercenary Myrmidon Manakete Thief Archer Dragon Knight Fighter Berserker Clerics Druid Mage Mage 2? Armor Armor 2? (Room for Donnel and the Soldiers?) Pegasus Knight Pegasus Knight 2? Cavalier Cavalier 2? Villain The ? on 2s and Lady Lord (which would feature people like Elincia, Caeda and Julia besides Lucina) is because of how many candidates exist for those classes. How and if one divided such things is debatable. Do you do Lance Cavalier and Sword Cavalier, or Cavalier and Paladin- like the Divine-Herald divide of lower and higher? Do you divide the Mages into Light-Law and Neutral-Neutral (no actual alignments, more a personality/role divide), or Mage and Sage, or loosely according to the Anima elements and Light? Hmmm.... Lords (if an archetype/race) would probably be like Divines, Heralds, Deities, Megamis and the like- if they appear at all as enemies, they wouldn't be recruitable. If you want a Lucina, you'll have to fuse one. At the bottom of the Lord totem pole, maybe I'd place Leif or Roy, two of the canonically weaker lords. Marth by virtue of being the first would likely end up somewhere towards the high end. Despite his gameplay godliness, Sigurd probably wouldn't be numero uno. Lucina for the top of Lady Lord as a concession to Awakening's popularity at the time would be reasonable. Nanna can be low. A low rung one? Hmm... so many of them are war veterans. Maybe Gregor or Ogier. Ogma as the highest sounds reasonable, he was a reputation no other has. Greil too. Fir or Shannam would be a good starting point, the pinnacle has many contenders- Saint Karel, Stefan, Navarre, Galzus, Shannan. I'd pick Saint Karel. Manaketes are not that many. Bantu would be the lowest, Jahn would also be low. Adult Tiki would be the highest, barring a Naga or Medeus (unlockable on NG+ only if at all). I'd put Chad low, and Jaffar and Volke high. RD Sothe is probably in the upper half, with Perne. Wolt and Ryan low, Innes high. Low can be Cherche or Eda or Heath or Zeiss. Top is Minerva in all likelihood, or Michalis, sorry Arion. Bord and Cord low, Barst towards the higher end. Not many good contenders for top- Dagdar, Bartre, Ross, or Vaike. Not a lot of options. Gonzalez for the highest? Or how about Fargus? Low can be Marty. So many Clerics/Priests. Wrys or Lena or Lissa low, Emmeryn, Elice, and Claud high. Not too many. Tharja high, Niime high, Salem low, Raigh low. Toss Sonya in here too. Lewyn should be high, being of Holy Blood and possessed by a dragon. Low can be Erk and Jubelo. Bors and Gilliam low. Lorenz, Xavier, Hannibal and Tauroneo at the higher end. I'll assume Caeda and Elincia are in Lady Lord, and place Est at the top with her sisters. Florina is low. Jagen low, Hardin higher than Abel and Cain. Top is hard to decide. Brigand bosses low, Gangrel low-mid. Ashnard, Zephiel, and Walhart are mid-high. Grima, Medeus, and Ashera, high or top. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silafante Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Interdimensional Observer said: Lord Lady Lord? The ? on 2s and Lady Lord (which would feature people like Elincia, Caeda and Julia besides Lucina) is because of how many candidates exist for those classes. Lords (if an archetype/race) would probably be like Divines, Heralds, Deities, Megamis and the like- if they appear at all as enemies, they wouldn't be recruitable. If you want a Lucina, you'll have to fuse one. At the bottom of the Lord totem pole, maybe I'd place Leif or Roy, two of the canonically weaker lords. Marth by virtue of being the first would likely end up somewhere towards the high end. Despite his gameplay godliness, Sigurd probably wouldn't be numero uno. Lucina for the top of Lady Lord as a concession to Awakening's popularity at the time would be reasonable. Nanna can be low. Why separate them by gender? I don't know (I never played shin megami tensei or similar) but it feels unnecessary, all other classes are floated with even more characters than that. Edited March 19, 2019 by Silafante Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclipse Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 I can see the FE4, Awakening, and Fates characters fusing together to create second-generation kids. Maybe certain FE7 characters, too. Regardless, I think there would have to be a limit of one given character recruited at a time, because cloning gets weird. Maybe make it so that the "original" is recruited, and the rest are magically-driven mimics or something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jotari Posted March 20, 2019 Author Share Posted March 20, 2019 6 hours ago, eclipse said: I can see the FE4, Awakening, and Fates characters fusing together to create second-generation kids. Maybe certain FE7 characters, too. Regardless, I think there would have to be a limit of one given character recruited at a time, because cloning gets weird. Maybe make it so that the "original" is recruited, and the rest are magically-driven mimics or something. Is it really any more weird than having three Cu Chulainns in SMT proper? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interdimensional Observer Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 17 hours ago, Silafante said: Why separate them by gender? I don't know (I never played shin megami tensei or similar) but it feels unnecessary, all other classes are floated with even more characters than that. I was considering it to be fairer to the female leads. It'd grant them a better chance of being towards the top a class if they had their own separate group. As for SMT, most demon races don't care about sex and are open to both. However, there are a few that do, namely Lady, Femme, and Megami (Goddess in Japanese- left untranslated because the franchise's name). Megami has an explicit male counterpart in Deity, so why not do the same for the main characters (even if Deities are by no means at all the best/most important demons, they are associated with Light)? 56 minutes ago, Jotari said: Is it really any more weird than having three Cu Chulainns in SMT proper? By which you mean Cu Chulainn, Setana, and the recolor of Chulainn called Tam Lin (who is a wholly separate person in mythological origin)? Enemies in all games and most units in Devil Survivor do get to break the "only 1 of a given demon on a team" rule, but other games do enforce it. Thinking on Special Fusions, they probably be a good way of fitting in more powerful alts of certain characters. Prince Leif is obtainable via standard fusion, but Master Knight Leif is obtained via blending Prince Leif, Nanna, Altena, and Ced or something. I'd also lock Garon behind a fusion of all of his kids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclipse Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 7 hours ago, Jotari said: Is it really any more weird than having three Cu Chulainns in SMT proper? Depends on how the "clones" are justified. From what little I remember of SMT IV: Spoiler the demons are actually transformed humans. Since the mechanic behind the transformation isn't explained, I'll assume that it's some combination of personality, physical traits, and magic randomness. FE, on the other hand, introduces units as individuals. I can maybe see some nonsensical "your copies are from parallel dimensions" nonsense to justify it. But then things would get horribly confusing once there were two Gordins or something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interdimensional Observer Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 56 minutes ago, eclipse said: From what little I remember of SMT IV: I'll just put it in spoilers, even though it's mostly general information. Spoiler Not all demons are humans transformed. Demons can come from a variety of sources. There are those that were born and have existed independently of humanity (unless they've retconned this recently). There are those who aren't from humans but were born of human desires/thoughts/feelings. And indeed some are transformed or deified humans. A key feature, I think, for conversion of a human into a demon is having a high level of magnetite. The substance which demons are composed of and which humans apparently can generate via thoughts and feelings. It's why I think (SMTIV spoilers): Spoiler Eating a Red Pill turns someone into a demon- they overdosed on magnetite. The Red Pills are made from human neurons taken from the brain- the place where thoughts and feelings are concentrated. A Red Pill is a high density source of magnetite. Similarly, the book reading that turns people into demons in Mikado is because of a magnetite overdose. Reading made people realize they were duped, they were misled their whole lives. They grew very frustrated, and frustration is an emotion. In SMT: Nocturne, Magnetite seems to have been replaced in function with Magutsuhi. Perhaps because there are only six living human beings left in the world five minutes in. Demons demanding humans worship them, demons seducing humans, and demons munching on humans are all I think different approaches to getting Magnetite, and Magnetite is power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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