Gender and Outfits in Heroes

[Othin]

19 minutes ago, Icelerate said:

What about distribution of male non seasonal alts VS female non seasonal alts. I think you should add this.

171 - 32 = 139 (50.9%)  VS 188 - 54 = 134 (49.1%)

 

I'll pass. I don't think that says much the other calculations don't already convey.

[Interdimensional Observer]

1 hour ago, DarthR0xas said:

Does that mean IS is going to go the F/GO route and

1 hour ago, alatartheblue42 said:

 genderbend the shit out of everyone in existence?

Hmm.... Valbaria and Leona. Shadow Dragon Medeusa. The Desert Tiger Gerikanny. 

Whilst I'd not actually like to see characters genderbent, in a world where I was not concerned about the rate of New Heroes, I'd take a crossdress banner.

 

24 minutes ago, silverserpent said:

Which, I know in the early games, fliers were dominated by girls to begin with, but still...

It's not just the "early games"

• Archanea + Valentia- all playables are female. Michalis is the only notable male non-PC flier.
• Jugdral- Travant, Arion, Deen (not to be confused with the Valentian Deen, they need to change one of these dudes to "Dean"). A mere three males, two of whom are unplayable, while Erinys, Fee, Hermina, Karin, Eda, and Misha are all playable females.
• Elibe- Zeiss, Galle, Narcian, Heath. Not much, if more than anything so far, and countered by Shanna, Thite, Juno, Florina, Fiora, Farina, and Vaida.
• Magvel- Parity here actually with NPCs/villains- Cormag, Glen, Valter vs. Vanessa, Tana, Syrene (and Myrrh- but she dragon).
• Tellius- Beorc lean female, only Haar is a playable Beorc flier male, but Ashnard and Shiharam back him up though not playable. Elincia, Marcia, Jill, Tanith, and Sigrun outnumber them. Laguz fliers are mostly male- Tibarn, Janaff, Ulki, Naesala, Nealuchi, and Reyson; vs. Leanne and Vika.
• Awakening- Mostly female. Sumia, Cordelia, Cherche, Cynthia, and Aversa; vs. just Jerome.
• Fates- Mostly female. Beruka, Camilla, Hinoka, Scarlet, Reina, and Caeldori; vs. Subaki, Shigure, and Percy.

Females are flight in FE. Only the Laguz Fliers see men outnumbering women, to the point we never see a female Hawk.

[bethany81707]

12 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Females are flight in FE. Only the Laguz Fliers see men outnumbering women, to the point we never see a female Hawk.

We also never see a female tiger. The female laguz are largely isolated to Leanne, the cats, that random laguz they added to RD that was probably for ticking a box for how much development they gave her, and a pregnant dragon.

...I guess you could squeeze Almedha in there?

[Ice Dragon]

1 hour ago, alatartheblue42 said:

I'm not denying that F/GO tends to release far more female units and to genderbend the shit out of everyone in existence, though.

It's honestly not that bad. In spoilers because it's not really relevant to the actual discussion:

Spoiler

Of the 171 obtainable characters (excluding true alts and separate characters based on the same historical/literary/mythological figure, but counting Arturia and Arthur separately),

• 17 are TYPE-MOON original characters (counting all Hassans as a single original character despite being based on a real historical figure due to their in-lore nature)
  • Mash Kyrielight, Ryougi Shiki, Emiya Shirou, Chloe von Einzbern, Asagami Fujino, Irisviel von Einzbern, Illyasviel von Einzbern, Sieg, Miyu Edelfelt, all Hassan-i Sabbah, Mysterious Heroine X, Emiya Kiritsugu, BB, Meltlilith, Passionlip, Sesshouin Kiara, Kingprotea
• 6 are mythological figures inhabiting the body or likeness of a Fate original character (doesn't count Scathach-Skadi)
  • Ishtar (Tohsaka Rin), Jaguar Man (Fujimura Taiga), Ereshkigal (Tohsaka Rin), Parvati (Matou Sakura), Zhuge Liang (Waver Velvet), Sitonai-Freya-Louhi (Illyasviel von Einzbern)
• 1 is a mythological figure I don't know enough about to know if they've been genderbent.
  • Beni-enma
• 3 are characters with no proper gender relation to their historical counterpart.
  • Chevalier d'Eon in F/GO has an undisclosed gender.
  • Nursery Rhyme in real life has no gender, though her appearance is inspired by Alice of Alice in Wonderland.
  • Jack the Ripper in real life has no known gender, though all suspects were male.
• 124 are their proper gender.
  • "Orion" is represented by both Orion and Artemis, both of whom are their proper gender.
  • "Katsushika Hokusai" is represented by both Katsushika Hokusai and Katsushika Oui, both of whom are their proper gender... well, presumably the octopus is male.
  • Including Shi Huangdi in this category despite being canonically genderless in F/GO since his appearance and voice are distinctly masculine.
  • Gilgamesh and Kid Gil are counted as the same character, Alexander and Iskandar are counted as the same character, etc.
  • Mecha Eli-chan and Mecha Eli-chan mk.II are considered the same character as Elizabeth Bathory.
• 20 are genderbent, 4 of whom are Saberfaces.
  • Arturia Pendragon: Is a Saberface, carry-over from Fate/Stay Night and Fate/Zero
  • Nero Claudius: Is a Saberface, carry-over from Fate/Extra
  • Attila
  • Okita Souji: Is a Saberface, carry-over from Fate/KOHA-ACE
  • Mordred: Is a Saberface, carry-over from Fate/Apocrypha
  • Miyamoto Musashi
  • Oda Nobunaga: Carry-over from Fate/KOHA-ACE
  • Nezha
  • Ushiwakamaru
  • Francis Drake: Carry-over from Fate/Extra
  • Quetzalcoatl
  • Xuanzang Sanzang
  • Leonardo Da Vinci: Takes the appearance of the Mona Lisa.
  • Jing Ke
  • Shuten Douji
  • Katou Danzou
  • Frankenstein's Monster: Carry-over from Fate/Apocrypha
  • Minamoto no Raikou
  • Ibaraki Douji
  • Paul Bunyan

Even if you count the Saberfaces (which are pretty much an inside joke since they are protagonists of their respective original Fate-universe works), that's only an 11% genderbend rate. One in 9 isn't that bad.

Several of the genderbent servants also have decently good enough reasons to be genderbent, too (this is not an exhaustive list). Nezha was said to have been beautiful in life, and Fate lore says that when he was resurrected, the gods ended up just giving him a female body because of it, to his chagrin. Xuanzang Sanzang has been traditionally played by a female actress in Japanese film for some time, not to mention also having the trait of being absurdly beautiful. Leonardo Da Vinci kind of gets a pass due to how Servants work in in-universe lore, as they embody their legend and not their reality (which is why Semiramis has control of the Hanging Gardens of Babylon despite most likely predating its construction), hence by he takes the appearance of the Mona Lisa.

And half of it is just the fact that history, literature, and mythology tend to have more male heroic (or villainous) characters than female. And actually, the end result is a nearly 50-50 split between males and females in F/GO, if you ignore the fact that there are more alts of female characters than there are of male characters.

[alatartheblue42]

18 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

It's honestly not that bad.

Oh, I know. Hyperbole is just more fun though. And Artoria having so many alts definitely doesn't help.

2 hours ago, Rezzy said:

If that's the only way I get Nolan, then so be it.

... I might need to commission an artist now.

[XRay]

The gender ratio looks fine. Total Heroes are practically balanced. Special Heroes and 5* exclusives are skewed towards females, but it does not look that bad.

It also seems like cherry picking data to show only the categories where it is skewed towards females.

Heroic Grail units are heavily male skewed:
35 Males (71.43%) ; 14 Females (28.57%)

Spoiler

Grand Heroes are heavily male skewed:
23 Males (82.14%) : 5 Females (17.86%)

Tempest Trials Heroes are slightly male skewed
12 Males (57.14%) : 9 Females (42.86%)

Legendary/Mythic Heroes are slightly female skewed:
8 Males (47.01%) : 9 Females (52.94%)

Spoiler

Legendary Heroes are slightly female skewed:
7 Males (46.67%) : 8 Females (53.33%)

Mythic Heroes are balanced:
1 Male (50%) : 1 Female (50%)

Special Heroes proper are female skewed:
21 Males (36.21%) : 37 Females (63.79%)

Heroes in the regular summoning pool (not Askr Trio, Special Heroes, Grand Heroes, Tempest Trials Heroes, Legendary Heroes, nor Mythic Heroes) are slightly female skewed:
97 Male (45.75%) : 115 Female (54.25%)

Spoiler

 

Red Heroes are slightly male skewed:
37 Male (52.11%) : 34 Female (47.89%)

Blue Heroes are female skewed:
19 Male (34.55%) : 36 Female (65.45%)

Green Heroes are slightly male skewed:
22 Male (52.38%) : 20 Female (47.62%)

Colorless Heroes are slightly female skewed:
19 Male (43.18%) : 25 Female (56.82%)

 

 

[Nanima]

4 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Two Herons was too much, and they would've been better replacing one of them with Nealuchi or one of Ulki and Janaff (Nealuchi would've been more cohesively thematic if we kicked Reyson out)

Um.. no? Nealuchi has very little relevance to Tibarn. Also the theme of that banner was meant to be Laguz Royals, so having Nealuchi among all those royals would have looked off. What kind of theme would you have claimed for a banner featuring Laguz Rulers like Tibarn, Nailah and Naeala, as well as an important character like Leanne, and then Nealuchi just tagging along randomly? You'd also have to add Janaff instead of Nailah and make it a "Laguz Bird banner". But I think replacing Reyson instead of Leanne would be a mistake in the first place. Reyson has very strong ties to both Tibarn and Naesala, and his brother is basically married to Nailah (according to official concept books). Leanne only has the latter two going for her. Her ties to Tibarn aren't very strong compared to Reyson's. Frankly adding Reyson along with Tibarn and Naesala makes the most sense overall. Leanne only has her popularity over him, which is more of  a criteria for "saving her up for later" here.

... I have a lot of feelings on birds.

Anyway, back on topic. I am a woman, but a large part of my top faves happens to be female, so I usually have something to appreciate each banner anyway. Another thing is that my top fave (Takumi), isn't exactly starved for alts. Also two other male faves (Reyson and Tibarn) were finally added this year, so it's a bit hard for me to feel deprived. But I do see the point that men are overall less likely to be added and overall less likely to be good units. Which is pretty dumb.

Even if they are so concerned about pandering to their straight male audience (as a bisexual, I have to say there is nothing about Spring!Loki that I find attractive.), I see no reason why they couldn't also try nurturing more of a female customer base. I'm sure they can appease the male whales just as much by adding two popular females instead of three. And if Heroes is smart about how they add the male characters, I am sure we'd get more female players with time. Right now, Heroes has a reputation where it's more likely to alienate potential female players, rather than attract them. So the dispararity is like a self-fulfilling prophecy and will only continue to grow.

[Lewyn]

24 minutes ago, XRay said:

The gender ratio looks fine. Total Heroes are practically balanced. Special Heroes and 5* exclusives are skewed towards females, but it does not look that bad.

It also seems like cherry picking data to show only the categories where it is skewed towards females.

Heroic Grail units are heavily male skewed:
35 Males (71.43%) ; 14 Females (28.57%)

  Reveal hidden contents

Grand Heroes are heavily male skewed:
23 Males (82.14%) : 5 Females (17.86%)

Tempest Trials Heroes are slightly male skewed
12 Males (57.14%) : 9 Females (42.86%)

Legendary/Mythic Heroes are slightly female skewed:
8 Males (47.01%) : 9 Females (52.94%)

  Reveal hidden contents

Legendary Heroes are slightly female skewed:
7 Males (46.67%) : 8 Females (53.33%)

Mythic Heroes are balanced:
1 Male (50%) : 1 Female (50%)

Special Heroes proper are female skewed:
21 Males (36.21%) : 37 Females (63.79%)

Heroes in the regular summoning pool (not Askr Trio, Special Heroes, Grand Heroes, Tempest Trials Heroes, Legendary Heroes, nor Mythic Heroes) are slightly female skewed:
97 Male (45.75%) : 115 Female (54.25%)

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Red Heroes are slightly male skewed:
37 Male (52.11%) : 34 Female (47.89%)

Blue Heroes are female skewed:
19 Male (34.55%) : 36 Female (65.45%)

Green Heroes are slightly male skewed:
22 Male (52.38%) : 20 Female (47.62%)

Colorless Heroes are slightly female skewed:
19 Male (43.18%) : 25 Female (56.82%)

 

 

This data actually makes the gender balance look worse.  Grail units are free units.  Rewards for GHB and Tempest trial unable to get the benefits of asset/flaws forever stuck with neutral.  Meanwhile special heroes, the seasonals, are usually hot stuff with new skills and move types and are the premium money grabbers of any gacha game.  The summoning pool, units that have been on new hero banners, are the other thing people spend orbs on.  Orbs the most valuable currency in the game bar none.  

So what we have is a domination of females in regards to summoning units, both regular and seasonal which are the meat and potatoes of gacha games.  A domination of male units tossed to us for free who draw in no money and many of which are forgettable.  Though we have gotten some good ones lately.  

This in addition to the series being male dominated, I wouldn't say Heroes is fine as far as representation and very poor as far as representing the series as a whole.  

[Zangetsu]

Are we complaining about genders again?

*ahem*

No one ever complains about Hawkeye's design & that makes me feel insecure.

 

Also more complaining about lack males staves users, etc, etc

[Ice Dragon]

17 minutes ago, Lewyn said:

Rewards for GHB and Tempest trial unable to get the benefits of asset/flaws forever stuck with neutral.

This is completely irrelevant because you can frame this in the exact opposite direction: "Free units always have their optimal nature." They only have one choice, so that one choice is by definition the most optimal.

Jamke, for example, has neutral stats of 38/36/32/29/17, but because he only has neutral as an option for a nature, he is effectively identical to a unit with neutral stats of 39/34/33/29/17 that is guaranteed to have its optimal Atk Asset for a Brave Bow build. Using these effective stats, it's plainly easy to see that he is the second best colorless infantry Brave Bow in the game (Cordelia is the only unit better for the build with 35/35 offenses, and the next best after Jamke are Leon with 34/30 and Innes with 33/34).

[Lewyn]

15 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

This is completely irrelevant because you can frame this in the exact opposite direction: "Free units always have their optimal nature." They only have one choice, so that one choice is by definition the most optimal.

Jamke, for example, has neutral stats of 38/36/32/29/17, but because he only has neutral as an option for a nature, he is effectively identical to a unit with neutral stats of 39/34/33/29/17 that is guaranteed to have its optimal Atk Asset for a Brave Bow build. Using these effective stats, it's plainly easy to see that he is the second best colorless infantry Brave Bow in the game (Cordelia is the only unit better for the build with 35/35 offenses, and the next best after Jamke are Leon with 34/30 and Innes with 33/34).

Free units don't have access to natures, and most of them would like to have them. Very few units prefer nuetral.  It is a major disadvantage, and especially for merge projects.    Jamke would be better if he could be +atk or +spd, but that isn't an option for him unlike Innes or Leon (whom he is often compared to) or Bridal Cordelia.  When considering best units people talk about optimal natures, being stuck at neutral makes Jamke much worse than he could be and lag behind more than just Bridal Cordelia.  

You seem to have missed the point.  It isn't about free units coming at optimal natures it is not having access to assets/flaws which really gimps potential.  

[Baldrick]

I don’t think Special Heroes being mostly female is a problem, most of the time they’re not new characters. By my count, there’s 71 female and 47 male alts (including Inigo/Owain/Zelgius), so the number of characters playable are 117 female, 124 male. For representation specifically of the main series, there’s also 9 female and 5 male OCs.

[Zapp Branniglenn]

49 minutes ago, Zangetsu said:

*ahem*

No one ever complains about Hawkeye's design & that makes me feel insecure.

He doesn't have a belly button. Creeps me the H*ck out. Lots of midriffs in Heroes, but none that share that issue from what I've seen.

[DarthR0xas]

50 minutes ago, Lewyn said:

This data actually makes the gender balance look worse. Grail units are free units. Meanwhile special heroes, the seasonals, are usually hot stuff with new skills and move types and are the premium money grabbers of any gacha game. The summoning pool, units that have been on new hero banners, are the other thing people spend orbs on.

A domination of male units tossed to us for free who draw in no money and many of which are forgettable.

I disagree wholeheartedly. A lot of the free units are often really popular fan favorite characters. IS has given away Camilla (which while it would've made them bank would've also drawn the ire of the fanbase moreso than it already did), Cecilia (which with her design would've been a shoe in for the whaling unit of that seasonal), Azura (also very popular), Aversa (who would've made them bank since she's a rare weapon and movement type combo), Dorcas (memes), Finn (one of if not the most popular Genealogy/Thracia character), Lyon (one of the most beloved antagonists in all of FE), Oliver (memes), Joshua (one of Sacred Stones's most popular characters), Arvis (the most beloved antagonist in all of FE), The Black Knight (well, there was Zelgius so this kinda doesn't count), Berkut (probably the best received new character in Echoes), Camus (literally has an archetype named after him), and F!Robin (Robin always sells well). 

Those are only the ones that stand out to me when I quickly look through the Heroic Grails tab, there are others. Garon was a new combination of movements, or at least one of the first, Naesala is the only blue flying laguz right now, ect ect. To say these units would draw in no money and are forgettable is absurd. Many could be the stars of their own banners. I admit, many of them aren't as popular as some other contemporaries, but to say that IS is just throwing us scraps for free is absurd. This lets popular units who could very well just be put on a banner instead be given out for free, which could deinsentivise some folks from summoning from a banner. They're literally about to give away Loki, who by all accounts should be the banner character of the Spring festival banner, instead of Bruno's abs.

[XRay]

1 hour ago, Lewyn said:

So what we have is a domination of females in regards to summoning units, both regular and seasonal which are the meat and potatoes of gacha games.  A domination of male units tossed to us for free who draw in no money and many of which are forgettable.  Though we have gotten some good ones lately.  

Heroes in the regular summoning pool is practically balanced as it only skews slightly towards female. Red and green tips slightly towards male, colorless slightly towards female, and blue towards female.

For Heroic Grail units, because they are mostly male and mostly free, I would argue that that is an advantage for female players and it panders to them since they do not need to spend Orbs.

I think the point @Ice Dragon is trying to make is that framing Grail Unit's lack of access to natures as a detriment is no different from framing archers' lack of access to Blade tomes as a detriment. A customization option that is not available is an option that cannot be optimal because it does not exist. Or to put it another way, it makes about as much sense as saying Embla's Ward and Múspellflame are the most optimal Sacred Seals; they are not optimal options because they are not options in the first place.

[NegativeExponents-]

1 hour ago, Zangetsu said:

No one ever complains about Hawkeye's design & that makes me feel insecure.

I agree. Lack of bellybutton is such an unrealistic body standard.

49 minutes ago, XRay said:

I think the point @Ice Dragon is trying to make is that framing Grail Unit's lack of access to natures as a detriment is no different from framing archers' lack of access to Blade tomes as a detriment. A customization option that is not available is an option that cannot be optimal because it does not exist. Or to put it another way, it makes about as much sense as saying Embla's Ward and Múspellflame are the most optimal Sacred Seals; they are not optimal options because they are not options in the first place.

But lack of customization options in a game about customization is indeed a detriment and that’s what I believe Lewyn was trying to say, and if not well I’m saying it.

Unless a freebie has their stats well distributed or a really strong niche, which most don’t btw, than they will always be considered the inferior option compared to their competition. Take Gerome and Cherche. Gerome has basically the same stat spread as his mom (-1hp, +2def, +3res) but due to his lack of IV’s a +def Cherche is better than him in every way (except for his still laughable 19 res) or she can choose to focus on any of her other stats, most notably her atk for her optimal Brave Axe build, which makes her more flexible compared to Gerome.

Characters like BK, Naesala, Aversa, or Arden are exceptions, not the norm. Most other units are like Gerome where they have their stat spread set up in such a way that their competition is better with the right IV’s or in cases like Rutger they lack a niche to set them on equal footing with their competition despite having great stats. Being a Grail unit is not a good thing to be because their intentionally made to be inferior.

[Mercakete]

3 hours ago, Glennstavos said:

He doesn't have a belly button. Creeps me the H*ck out. Lots of midriffs in Heroes, but none that share that issue from what I've seen.

Clearly he hatched from an egg. He's encountered in Nabata, right? Must actually be a dragon who's holding out on Eliwood and co.

4 hours ago, Zangetsu said:

Also more complaining about lack males staves users, etc, etc

I'm pulling for Bunny Bruno despite his wonky stats.

Is it just me or do women tend to get the premium abilities/stats compared to their male counterparts?

[Baldrick]

2 hours ago, XRay said:

A customization option that is not available is an option that cannot be optimal because it does not exist. 

But IVs do exist on summonable units. If Jamka had access to IVs he’d go from statistically worse than Bridelia (-1 atk -2 spd) to situationally better with a Brave Bow  (+1 atk -3 spd)

[Etrurian emperor]

9 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Keaton was, but was Adrift Male Corrin chosen that way?

Yes. Yes I think male Corrin was chosen exactly for that!

But overall I do think male characters aren't given alts or more attention to appeal to the female fans. Alfonse is conventionally pretty and surely has his female fans but I don't think he got his bunny outfit based on that nor would a bridal Raigh have quite as much of an implication as bridal Sanaki. 

[Eltosian Kadath]

So there have been some talks here about the gender imbalance throughout the series and to get a better sense of that I stupidly counted the playable characters throughout the main series. For full disclose I only counted unique characters, so the counts below are only the new characters from each game, although if they went by another name I let them both count (so Devdan and Danved both count, while Bartre only counts from Binding Blade, etc.) . I did not include the BS Fire Emblem maps (but all of those characters except for arguably Camus were included in New Mystery anyway). I did not include generics (like the replacements from Shadow Dragon or Capturable generics enemies from Fates etc.), DLC characters, spot pass characters, trial map only characters , Amiibo characters, or Capturable Fates characters. Finally characters who could be either gender (like Corrin or Kana etc.) I counted as .5 for both genders.

Overall this led to 532 characters 337.5 of which were male, and 194.5 of which were female for a gender balance of 63.44% Male and 36.56% Female.

 

Spoiler

Shadow Dragon and Blade of Light - Male 41; Female 11

Gaiden - Male 20; Female 9

Mystery of the Emblem - Male 8; Female 6

Genealogy of the Holy War Generation 1- Male  15; Female 8

Genealogy of the Holy War Generation 2 - Male 22; Female 16

Thracia 776 - Male 31; Female 16

Binding Blade - Male 35; Female 19

Blazing Sword - Male 27; Female 13

Sacred Stones - Male 22; Female 12

Path of Radiance - Male 32; Female 14

Radiant Dawn - Male 18; Female 11

Shadow Dragon - Male 4; Female 3

New Mystery of the Emblem - Male 6.5; Female 2.5

Awakening Generation 1 - Male 14.5; Female 14.5

Awakening Generation 2 - Male 6.5; Female 6.5

Fates Generation 1 - Male 24.5; Female 22.5

Fates Generation 2 - Male 10.5; Female 10.5

 

Overall Male 337.5 (63.44%) ;Female 194.5 (36.56%)

 

[Zangetsu]

5 hours ago, Glennstavos said:

He doesn't have a belly button. Creeps me the H*ck out. Lots of midriffs in Heroes, but none that share that issue from what I've seen.

 

4 hours ago, NegativeExponents- said:

I agree. Lack of bellybutton is such an unrealistic body standard.

Damn it, that's so much better than the lack of nipple complaints. I'm a disgrace    :*(

 

 

2 hours ago, Mercakete said:

I'm pulling for Bunny Bruno despite his wonky stats.

Is it just me or do women tend to get the premium abilities/stats compared to their male counterparts?

Not sure what you're talking about. Seen plenty of dudes having good stats & skills. I'm sure as hell not going to say someone like Surtr is "progressive"

 

34 minutes ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

So there have been some talks here about the gender imbalance throughout the series and to get a better sense of that I stupidly counted the playable characters throughout the main series. For full disclose I only counted unique characters, so the counts below are only the new characters from each game, although if they went by another name I let them both count (so Devdan and Danved both count, while Bartre only counts from Binding Blade, etc.) . I did not include the BS Fire Emblem maps (but all of those characters except for arguably Camus were included in New Mystery anyway). I did not include generics (like the replacements from Shadow Dragon or Capturable generics enemies from Fates etc.), DLC characters, spot pass characters, trial map only characters , Amiibo characters, or Capturable Fates characters. Finally characters who could be either gender (like Corrin or Kana etc.) I counted as .5 for both genders.

Overall this led to 532 characters 337.5 of which were male, and 194.5 of which were female for a gender balance of 63.44% Male and 36.56% Female.

 

 

This guy did that too based on the CYL 1 poll.

https://kantopia.wordpress.com/2017/02/21/fire-emblem-series-choose-your-legends-analysis-final-summary-and-recap/

Edited March 23, 2019 by Zangetsu

[Alastor15243]

The thing is I think historically the cast was majority male in every game that didn't require an equal gender split for breeding purposes (and even then there are excess men in most). And while that's an entirely different discussion right there, the point I'm making in bringing it up here is that the skewing towards women representation is actually more egregious than it looks because it means that individual women already have better odds of getting in because there's a smaller pool to choose from, and individual male heroes will have a significantly harder time getting placed in the game if an even male/female ratio is insisted upon. Granted, there's probably enough unpopular and unmemorable male units that the pools of units people actually want are probably closer to even, but that's mostly in the older games.

As for fanservice, while I wouldn't be opposed to an increase in male character fanservice to make it comparable with the female character fanservice, in the end I think it comes down to the demographics of this game's whales, since they're the ones they're trying to bait money out of with the sexy alts and new waifus. And while I have absolutely no data on this, so don't quote me on it, it wouldn't surprise me at all to learn that women aren't nearly as willing to throw thousands of dollars at their phones to win talking jpegs of hunky boys.

8 hours ago, bethany81707 said:

We also never see a female tiger. The female laguz are largely isolated to Leanne, the cats, that random laguz they added to RD that was probably for ticking a box for how much development they gave her, and a pregnant dragon.

...I guess you could squeeze Almedha in there?

If you're talking about Nailah, they gave her plenty of characterization I feel, especially since she wasn't a main character. But I liked the interactions she had with others, and feel we have enough to go on to get a grasp of who she is, at least to the same degree as Tibarn.

 

 

Edited March 23, 2019 by Alastor15243

[bethany81707]

4 minutes ago, Alastor15243 said:

If you're talking about Nailah, they gave her plenty of characterization I feel, especially since she wasn't a main character. But I liked the interactions she had with others, and feel we have enough to go on to get a grasp of who she is, at least to the same degree as Tibarn.

It was Vika I referred to. I forgot about Nailah- I blame her being from a country and tribe of laguz that doesn't exist in the story I'm writing, and that is so much fresher on my mind because I'm almost literally writing it right now.

 

[kirauza343]

I would like to mention that I don’t think you can say a male character was added for female fanservice the way some of the women have been for male. I’m seeing Keaton and Adrift Corrin popping up as “they were included to please the women” when both clearly fit the theme of their banners. Corrin showed up with his female counterpart, his mother, and if you include the tempest trial a version of the other major character with a connection to Valla. A banner with the four of them makes sense thematically (even if it still would’ve been unnecessary) but the banner we got had a clear character that didn’t belong: Camilla, who is an infamous fanservice character in at this point.

The Fates Beast banner has exactly who was expected to be on there, as leaving Keaton out but including the only three other beasts would’ve made no sense. If there had been a Xander or Leo (or whoever straight/bi girls like) beast alt then there’d be a case for including a character to please the female fan base. There’s definitely an argument that could be made about the artist designing them with appealing to women in mind though, but I feel that the disntinction is important.

Also, when it comes to male vs female fanservice I feel it’s very important to look at now just how much or how little they’re wearing but also to look at how they’re presented and posed, like Noire’s ridiculous attacking pose that’s clearly drawn to show off her chest and butt at the same time, Summer Corrin’s bikini literally falling off and just barely covering anything in her damaged art (really a lot of the damaged art for the women in general can be questionable), Catria’s weirdly twisted neutral art that again is meant to show off the chest and butt to name a few. This isn’t to say that the men aren’t sexualized but there’s definitely fewer of them that are and even they are a lot less likely to be in a weirdly warped pose to show off assets or only barely be covered by strategically placed disintegrating clothing.

[Othin]

8 hours ago, XRay said:

The gender ratio looks fine. Total Heroes are practically balanced. Special Heroes and 5* exclusives are skewed towards females, but it does not look that bad.

It also seems like cherry picking data to show only the categories where it is skewed towards females.

Heroic Grail units are heavily male skewed:
35 Males (71.43%) ; 14 Females (28.57%)

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Grand Heroes are heavily male skewed:
23 Males (82.14%) : 5 Females (17.86%)

Tempest Trials Heroes are slightly male skewed
12 Males (57.14%) : 9 Females (42.86%)

Legendary/Mythic Heroes are slightly female skewed:
8 Males (47.01%) : 9 Females (52.94%)

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Legendary Heroes are slightly female skewed:
7 Males (46.67%) : 8 Females (53.33%)

Mythic Heroes are balanced:
1 Male (50%) : 1 Female (50%)

Special Heroes proper are female skewed:
21 Males (36.21%) : 37 Females (63.79%)

Heroes in the regular summoning pool (not Askr Trio, Special Heroes, Grand Heroes, Tempest Trials Heroes, Legendary Heroes, nor Mythic Heroes) are slightly female skewed:
97 Male (45.75%) : 115 Female (54.25%)

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Red Heroes are slightly male skewed:
37 Male (52.11%) : 34 Female (47.89%)

Blue Heroes are female skewed:
19 Male (34.55%) : 36 Female (65.45%)

Green Heroes are slightly male skewed:
22 Male (52.38%) : 20 Female (47.62%)

Colorless Heroes are slightly female skewed:
19 Male (43.18%) : 25 Female (56.82%)

 

 

I picked those three ratios for very specific reasons:

• Totals are the overall gender balance in the game.
• Seasonals have a high correlation with "sexy outfits", making them the simplest way to estimate outfit variation between male and female characters.
• 5* exclusive units are the main ones people spend money to get. The fact that they lean much more towards female characters than the overall unit roster shows that those are the ones IS is trying to monetize.

Obviously, that correspondingly suggests that there are other categories, particularly more common units, where male characters are more frequent. That does not change the points about outfits and monetization, and I'm not sure what specific points you're trying to make with those numbers.