Gender and Outfits in Heroes

[Ice Dragon]

15 minutes ago, Baldrick said:

if you deny that Jamka lacking natures other than neutral is a detriment, then you must think that neutral is the optimal nature even if he had access to all natures. But it seems you dodge the question either way.

That reasoning is non-sequitur. I think that neutral is his optimal nature because he doesn't have access to other natures. If he had access to other natures, I think the designers would have given him a different stat line with less Atk to compensate.

[Baldrick]

4 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

. If he had access to other natures, I think the designers would have given him a different stat line with less Atk to compensate.

Having less attack is a disadvantage. If it compensates for having access to non-neutral natures, that access is an advantage. 

Edited March 26, 2019 by Baldrick

[NegativeExponents-]

2 hours ago, Nowi's Husband said:

Are people willing to whale for male fanservice like with female?  Are there gachas that are balanced or male skewed that show it in action?

Dokkan Battle and Legends. Although I’m not sure the fanservice there is the same one you’re talking about but regardless it shows that people are willing to whale for more than just sex appeal and women.

Dragalia Lost isn’t male skewed but it’s pretty balanced and lots of people have whaled for males. Especially the recent Albert, who I myself dipped into my wyrmite stash to roll for, because he’s a popular character that has appeared in other of Cygames gachas.

Touken Ranbu And UtaPri Shining Live are pretty well known and they’re all about the male fanservice. There’s... there’s also... there’s also Tokyo Afterschool Summoners whose gameplay I find atrocious but I’m pretty sure that the gameplay isn’t what keeps the game running and the players playing instead it’s  the oodles of male fanservice comparable to that Camilla and Spring Loki. Probably the best example of a game sustaining itself purely through male fanservice.

So yeah, there’s a few male skewed Gachas and I think there’s quite a lot of people that are willing to whale for males, fanservice or not, because female sex appeal ain’t everything. I mean there’s always a market for something out there and it’s not like this is a particularly obscure or strange one or anything like that that you can’t possibly hope to get a profit from.

[Interdimensional Observer]

9 minutes ago, NegativeExponents- said:

So yeah, there’s a few male skewed Gachas and I think there’s quite a lot of people that are willing to whale for males, fanservice or not, because female sex appeal ain’t everything. I mean there’s always a market for something out there and it’s not like this is a particularly obscure or strange one or anything like that that you can’t possibly hope to get a profit from.

And as a reminder, FE3H's artist did work for at least one otome (a dating sim/visual novel for straight girls):

Take your pick. Most of these are guys, though not all. But I reserve second row from the top, fourth from the left.

I could do without the blood, but Chinatsu Kuraexplodingshirts should do some FEH work.

[NegativeExponents-]

7 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

And as a reminder, FE3H's artist did work for at least one otome (a dating sim/visual novel for straight girls):

Take your pick. Most of these are guys, though not all. But I reserve second row from the top, fourth from the left.

I could do without the blood, but Chinatsu Kuraexplodingshirts should do some FEH work.

Ah yeah, I actually remembered that from the topic I made over at the 3 Houses forum but I couldn’t remember if it was gacha or not so I didn’t bring it up. Would love to see her do some characters in Heroes.

I like the blood actually. Always hate it when the clothes gets shredded but no visual damage is done to the body.

Also, I reserve the one on the topmost row, fifth from the left. Although the one on the second to last row, third from the left is equally great.

[bethany81707]

I've gotta say this Cipher art is making me somewhat attracted to a guy, and I don't normally swing that way. I think it's the arm? I dunno.

[NekoKnight]

On 3/25/2019 at 9:41 AM, Interdimensional Observer said:

Not related to FEH exactly, but on topic. The Shadows of Valentia Valentian Accordion artbook invented reasons for why Pegasus Knights are pantsless.

Pegasus Knight description:

"The outfit of a standard Valentian pegasus knight. Since like in Archanea to the east, only women can ride pegasi, a pegasus knight unit is comprised entirely of women soldiers. There is not as much metal used in the parts that straddle the horse, allowing the horse and rider to form a strong bond. Weapon is a lance."

 

Falcon Knight description:

"The outfit of a pegasus knight who has gained enough experience to be promoted. Weapon is a lance. The white and gold used for the base colors of their attire lends an air of solemnity, and the falcon knights themselves exhibit high resistance to Terrors. Identical to pegasus knights, the lower half is not heavily armored to make it possible for delicate communication between horse and rider."

I think we must assume that all pegusus riders are female because all pegusus' are heterosexual males/homosexual females with a human kink.

"Sit on me."

"...what?"

"I mean, er, uh..." *Innocent horse noises*

According to developer notes I just made up, Florina was originally the pegusus' mount for Lyn and they later kept her personality and made her human.

 

[NegativeExponents-]

35 minutes ago, NekoKnight said:

I think we must assume that all pegusus riders are female because all pegusus' are heterosexual males/homosexual females with a human kink.

"Sit on me."

"...what?"

"I mean, er, uh..." *Innocent horse noises*

According to developer notes I just made up, Florina was originally the pegusus' mount for Lyn and they later kept her personality and made her human.

 

I think it's stated that it's rare for Pegasi to let men ride them but never that it's outright impossible.

Pegasus riding alt for Hector:

"These Pegasi are real perverts, you know? Why this fella I'm on wouldn't let me get on unless I was wearing this skirt. Something about the delicate communication between the horse and my lower half?"

"Now, is it just me or does it seem to you like everyone is peeking up?"

"Normally I'm wearing undergarments, I swear!"

[Ottservia]

7 hours ago, NegativeExponents- said:

I think it's stated that it's rare for Pegasi to let men ride them but never that it's outright impossible.

I wouldn’t say pegasi are completely opposed to men riding them(well at least archanean ones) if this cutscene is anything to go by.

Or could just be a plot hole to push the devs’ otp either or is possible 

Edited March 26, 2019 by Ottservia

[Landmaster]

10 hours ago, bethany81707 said:

I've gotta say this Cipher art is making me somewhat attracted to a guy, and I don't normally swing that way. I think it's the arm? I dunno.

Daddy Klein is fine AF

[eclipse]

15 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

And as a reminder, FE3H's artist did work for at least one otome (a dating sim/visual novel for straight girls):

 

Take your pick. Most of these are guys, though not all. But I reserve second row from the top, fourth from the left.

I could do without the blood, but Chinatsu Kuraexplodingshirts should do some FEH work.

. . .I'm attracted to none of them, and this mystifies me.  Perhaps I'm immune to the usual fanservice?

[Interdimensional Observer]

3 hours ago, eclipse said:

. . .I'm attracted to none of them, and this mystifies me.  Perhaps I'm immune to the usual fanservice?

Nothing wrong with that. Perhaps you desire a higher form of love than which we base creatures can imagine?

[silverserpent]

On 3/25/2019 at 11:07 PM, Interdimensional Observer said:

And as a reminder, FE3H's artist did work for at least one otome (a dating sim/visual novel for straight girls):

Take your pick. Most of these are guys, though not all. But I reserve second row from the top, fourth from the left.

I could do without the blood, but Chinatsu Kuraexplodingshirts should do some FEH work.

I find my eyes drawn most to top left corner, the braided redhead in first row, and that lovely hunk third row, third down. What game is this so I may, err, investigate?

[Nowi's Husband]

On 3/26/2019 at 9:41 AM, Ottservia said:

I wouldn’t say pegasi are completely opposed to men riding them(well at least archanean ones) if this cutscene is anything to go by.

Or could just be a plot hole to push the devs’ otp either or is possible 

Yeah in all the games with Rescue they can pick up men.

Edited March 27, 2019 by Nowi's Husband

[Interdimensional Observer]

58 minutes ago, silverserpent said:

What game is this so I may, err, investigate?

I thought apparently the name is Otome Yusha, thought from its name it was an otome, but it actually looks like it is a gacha. This is sorta irrelevant though, since it looks like the game is Japanese only. 

[silverserpent]

13 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

I thought apparently the name is Otome Yusha, thought from its name it was an otome, but it actually looks like it is a gacha. This is sorta irrelevant though, since it looks like the game is Japanese only. 

aww...I really don't like the finagling it takes to play jp games. Oh well.

[Kahvi]

The thing about fan service targeted towards straight women is that women are generally more character oriented. I'm not really familiar with this otome yusha game but judging by a quick google search, the men aren't really showing much skin in their normal outfits and same usually applies for most otome games etc. I obviously can't speak for everyone but I'd just get annoyed if male characters in fan service-y outfits were constantly shoved to the screen.

That's not the only thing that Chinatsu worked on that is targeted towards straight women by the way. They also worked on Uta no Prince-sama and some Nitro+Chiral properties. Whether this means anything for 3H, I have no idea.

[Kori]

On 29/03/2019 at 1:52 PM, Kahvi said:

The thing about fan service targeted towards straight women is that women are generally more character oriented. I'm not really familiar with this otome yusha game but judging by a quick google search, the men aren't really showing much skin in their normal outfits and same usually applies for most otome games etc. I obviously can't speak for everyone but I'd just get annoyed if male characters in fan service-y outfits were constantly shoved to the screen.

Agreed. This is why it doesn't quite sit right with me when people (including in this topic, but no offense intended to anyone) say things like "the game assumes Kiran is a straight guy (or a lesbian)" or assume the fanservice targeted towards straight men works for lesbians too. Sure, personal experience doesn't mean much so the fact that FEH's fanservice repulses me is irrelevant, and there are exceptions (I've seen wlw who are really thirsty for Heroes!Tharja and Camilla), but fanservice for female fans would look different even if it used female characters too. A game full of pretty boys would have eye candy but would most likely spend more time on their personality and backstory, and maybe show more interaction between characters, than Heroes does.

[Nowi's Husband]

Sounds more challenging than making fanservice for men, we are visual, just have revealing outfits and we are happy.  Personality isn't really relevant.

[Ottservia]

On 4/1/2019 at 9:39 AM, Nowi's Husband said:

Sounds more challenging than making fanservice for men, we are visual, just have revealing outfits and we are happy.  Personality isn't really relevant.

more relevant than you may think. There's a reason why tsundere is one of the most overused and cliche archetypes in all of anime. Hell dere types in general have sort of devolved into fetishized versions of what they were originally. Not to say there aren't good ones out just the majority of them are clearly there just to pander to some kind of fetish at least in harem shows anyway.

Speaking of dere types. We need more variety within the seasonal pool cause really all we have at this point are a couple kuuderes, a mayadere, one dandere(kind of), and like a male tsundere and that's about it. Come on give some of the dere girls some love.

[Lewyn]

On 4/1/2019 at 1:20 AM, Kori said:

Agreed. This is why it doesn't quite sit right with me when people (including in this topic, but no offense intended to anyone) say things like "the game assumes Kiran is a straight guy (or a lesbian)" or assume the fanservice targeted towards straight men works for lesbians too. Sure, personal experience doesn't mean much so the fact that FEH's fanservice repulses me is irrelevant, and there are exceptions (I've seen wlw who are really thirsty for Heroes!Tharja and Camilla), but fanservice for female fans would look different even if it used female characters too. A game full of pretty boys would have eye candy but would most likely spend more time on their personality and backstory, and maybe show more interaction between characters, than Heroes does.

It was me that said that, and I said or lesbian to not sound sexist.  Why I said 'straight' guy instead of just guys or most guys, trying to say everything PC.  However yes you are right I made a bad assumption.  So remove that or lesbian, and just shorten it to assume Kiran is a straight male. 

I think a lot of girls have been big into some of the few male fanservice characters we've gotten despite not getting any 'additional backstory', so I don't think that is really required.  Besides which these characters, besides OCs, come from the main series so we already got personality/background/etc.  

[NegativeExponents-]

31 minutes ago, Lewyn said:

Besides which these characters, besides OCs, come from the main series so we already got personality/background/etc.  

Reinhardt has two alts and I still know nothing about him other than he is Olwen’s brother. Like it doesn’t matter if a character already has a background story from their original games, it’s preposterous to think that every Heroes player has played every Fire Emblem game or any FE at all really. Heroes really needs to work on getting characters backstories out there and get players interested in them beyond just their utility as a unit/fodder.

[Kori]

8 hours ago, Lewyn said:

It was me that said that, and I said or lesbian to not sound sexist.  Why I said 'straight' guy instead of just guys or most guys, trying to say everything PC.  However yes you are right I made a bad assumption.  So remove that or lesbian, and just shorten it to assume Kiran is a straight male. 

I think a lot of girls have been big into some of the few male fanservice characters we've gotten despite not getting any 'additional backstory', so I don't think that is really required.  Besides which these characters, besides OCs, come from the main series so we already got personality/background/etc.  

I thought that might be your intention, and it's fine, as I said, no offense. It just so happens that in this case, I think we can probably assume that IS was focusing on a straight male audience.

Good point about the OCs, Bruno does have the "angst because he's cursed" card and his star-crossed friendship with the Askr siblings going for him, but 1) we don't know how much popularity that would get him if he didn't also have abs, 2) Hrid has pretty much nothing and he's still got fans.

8 hours ago, NegativeExponents- said:

Reinhardt has two alts and I still know nothing about him other than he is Olwen’s brother. Like it doesn’t matter if a character already has a background story from their original games, it’s preposterous to think that every Heroes player has played every Fire Emblem game or any FE at all really. Heroes really needs to work on getting characters backstories out there and get players interested in them beyond just their utility as a unit/fodder.

I really wish they would do this, at least with the older or hard to access games. Surely there are people who can't play Thracia even in the Japanese fanbase, since iirc it wasn't released the normal way.

(Though really, there's isn't much to know about Reinhardt himself. He's Ishtar's big scary bodyguard, he exists to be a fearsome enemy when you have to fight him, to show in passing that Julius is getting creepily possessive with Ishtar (I think his line about specifically disliking Reinhardt is a Heroes original and that the kid would have hated any guy who got to be close to his girlfriend), and to provide character development for Olwen. But Olwen isn't broken in Heroes, so we don't care about that, I suppose.  )

[Lewyn]

21 hours ago, NegativeExponents- said:

Reinhardt has two alts and I still know nothing about him other than he is Olwen’s brother. Like it doesn’t matter if a character already has a background story from their original games, it’s preposterous to think that every Heroes player has played every Fire Emblem game or any FE at all really. Heroes really needs to work on getting characters backstories out there and get players interested in them beyond just their utility as a unit/fodder.

I mean the game is created as a love letter to fans of the series so indeed we are expected to know the characters.  It even is rife with spoilers in confessions and other dialogue.  However I agree it would be cool if say Heroic ordeals had some character building for the hero.  

12 hours ago, Kori said:

I thought that might be your intention, and it's fine, as I said, no offense. It just so happens that in this case, I think we can probably assume that IS was focusing on a straight male audience.

Good point about the OCs, Bruno does have the "angst because he's cursed" card and his star-crossed friendship with the Askr siblings going for him, but 1) we don't know how much popularity that would get him if he didn't also have abs, 2) Hrid has pretty much nothing and he's still got fans.

 

Ah Bruno, dude can ride a horse, was such a master of the spear he taught Sharena, can wield tomes as well as anyone, and on top of all that is able to have this herculean body.  Jeez, what have I been doing with my life?  We should get him as Master Knight class, it would be fitting. 

I agree on Hrid, I think gameplay wise he is excellent design, but in story there is hardly anything to him.  We must just assume he is mostly like Ephraim, since he rushes into battle by himself, and cares for his siblings.  I think Ephraim existing allows people imagine more of Hrid's story/personality.

Edited April 4, 2019 by Lewyn

[Interdimensional Observer]

13 hours ago, Kori said:

But Olwen isn't broken in Heroes, so we don't care about that, I suppose.  )

Brokenness has always partly played a role in defining popularity.

Not always of course *points to Roy winning in CYL1*, but for some, brokenness is the base of their popularity.

Shinon is a good example, RD Shinon is an excellent Sniper from start to end, a rarity in the Archer-Sniper family (although it is the Archers which really have the problem, not so much the Snipers). And it has little to do with the start called his face (his platonic looks) nor the end called his excretion regions (aka sexual fanservice). Nor does it have anything to do with where his personality starts- provocative abrasiveness (was his red hair intended to match this?), and nor ends, a decent person buried deeply beneath that encyclopedia made of sandpaper.

I might be able to say the same of Haar, but his good character is a little more readily apparent. 

And of course, the 'hardt is built on gameplay brokenness here (which isn't wholly off-kilter from what little I know of his Thracia boss self- albeit easily done in with a status staff use).