Voting Gauntlet: Destructive Forces

[Zelgius]

4 hours ago, Rezzy said:

Has anybody on Team Garon been getting my Titania?  I've been getting plenty of Green and Colorless partners and thankfully avoiding the triple red that usually plagues me when I'm on a red team.  Strangely, I've gotten no blue allies and have had to field my own, but it's still an improvement.

 

So, it looks like we get more flags per round now, if I'm not mistaken.  It looks like it's 2000 compared to 1500 before, if my math is right.  I'll need to figure out the best way to maximize my flag usage.  I'll have to see the max with 8 hours of charge you can use.

I've been getting your Titania and @Alkaid's Peri. So far I've been fielding my Walhart, I could change to a blue if you'd like.

[eclipse]

Bickering can go to PM, thankyouverymuch.

Or Grima will eat you all.  Well, mine will try, at least.

[Lau]

Not too keen on these changes, tbh. Though, I suppose I'll get used to them soon enough.

Gharnef and Julius seem to be keeping up with each other, no shocker there.

@Motendra God bless your Michalis.

[omegaxis1]

8 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Although it is a human product built with the remnants of dragonkind. The world still cannot surpass those who ruled ~6609 years ago, it must still build upon them. And the solution to this creation is a ghost and their teeth from that dead age. How pitiful, is this all humankind can do?

*Hops through an Outrealm to a world where Walhart conquered everybody* Now I've a patron who will let me create true human strength, true human ingenuity. Power removed from those scaled fossils, glory beyond which they could ever have achieved! Hehahaha!

 

-Excuse me, my mad scientist side got in the way there.

Though there was an underlying point. The only FE where I think where the ultimate tools of humanity lacks a draconic or divine (for Tellius) origin is Elibe. And maybe very underdeveloped Magvel, we don't know how the Sacred Stones and Sacred Twins were made, but the SS do contain the DK's power.

I actually had a plot idea for Fire Emblem involving a mad scientist.

Also, I dunno about the case of Elibe. I honestly theorize that the Elibe weapons originated from the Fire Emblem as a power source, because it was so powerful that they simply harnessed the energy for it. But I also think that the Fire Emblem might very well be a product of the Divine Dragons. Divine Dragons do possess the dragon killing aspect in their breath attacks, and if that power ends up being harnessed in the Emblem that the humans use as an energy source, they basically have the means to create tools using that power.

[Rezzy]

5 hours ago, Zelgius said:

I've been getting your Titania and @Alkaid's Peri. So far I've been fielding my Walhart, I could change to a blue if you'd like.

Nah, Walhart's great.  I already finished the quests.  Only needing 3 instead of 5 helps.

[Etrurian emperor]

10 hours ago, omegaxis1 said:

My point exactly. Without Radiant Dawn, the Black Knight serves as being Ike's rival, the man that murdered Ike's father and such. Basically, the story of Ike growing was to face against the Black Knight. It's great on its own, but the Black Knight has  no real depth or backstory. He's just the "big scary knight that murdered Ike's dad." That's almost no different than the many "big scary dragon that wants to kill everyone." 

I always saw POR Black Knight as Fire Emblem's answer to the Darth Vader type of villain since the Black Knight does have the whole ''A pupil of mine until he turned evil' thing going with Greil.

As for depth there were hints that BK really, really hates Greil and his family.  He welcomes Mist joining the fight because it. Rather then craving a pure duel like Zelgius would he says ''Good, now I can pull out the entire family three by the root''. Its cliche but I always imagined him having some ties to Elena and being very angry at Greil for killing her. 

It makes me wonder if RD Black Knight got given to a different writer because any grudge towards Greil is completely absent and he's more knightly than POR Black Knight ever was. 

Edited April 2, 2019 by Etrurian emperor

[Sylphid]

@Anacybele I'm very late with this, but if you're still missing friends in Team Julius, feel free to send friend request my way. My ID's in the sig,

[Interdimensional Observer]

42 minutes ago, Etrurian emperor said:

It makes me wonder if RD Black Knight got given to a different writer because any grudge towards Greil is completely absent and he's more knightly than POR Black Knight ever was. 

I'd hope this was the case, the inconsistency at the very end, everything else before the finale worked enough for me, was too great. A last ditch sympathy appeal did not work, the idea he could have honored Greil at all is out of wack with threatening to kill Mist as he lay dying.

I wonder if the Black Knight was at all in the Beta PoR plans.

Ike's father go unnamed in these leftover notes, odd if the Black Knight was intended since Gawain and the Green Knight is the source of his name. And in this scenario, from what little we know, Gawain should never have had reason to conceal his name- he died a Begnion knight. These notes make no mention of the BK, nor Elincia nor Ashnard, although you could possibly infer the existences of these two at least from an extant Crimea and Daein. On the other hand, Beta included: Duke Persis (who in the final game is of course Sephiran)- the supposed murderer of Ike's father and his mother's adoptive father, the Serenes Massacre, Yune the dark god, Stefan descendant of an ancient hero, a noble-heavy superpower Begnion with a Central Army equivalent.

 

2 hours ago, omegaxis1 said:

Also, I dunno about the case of Elibe. I honestly theorize that the Elibe weapons originated from the Fire Emblem as a power source, because it was so powerful that they simply harnessed the energy for it. But I also think that the Fire Emblem might very well be a product of the Divine Dragons. Divine Dragons do possess the dragon killing aspect in their breath attacks, and if that power ends up being harnessed in the Emblem that the humans use as an energy source, they basically have the means to create tools using that power.

Although Athos after the Scouring was surprised to find Arcadia, a place where dragonkind and humans lived in peace. By the time the Eight Legends arose, I would think the Divines left Elibe for Arcadia or the Dragon's Gate, although a stray old Divine in isolation who helped would not be violating Athos's later surprise. 

Alternatively, they could have stumbled on research and relics the Divines didn't pack up when they left (feasible, it'd be hasted and forced flight) and those were then smelted and mixed together into the Divine Weapons. In a sense, the original Falchion is such a relic, if with intention that humans would use it, Gotoh nonetheless it seems didn't actively grant it to humanity when Medeus first arose, Anri had to actively seek it out from him. I don't think they could've left behind the Divine Weapons themselves though, since if dragonkind ever used them in the past against themselves, the clash should've triggered the Ending Winter sooner.

[Anacybele]

1 hour ago, Sylphid said:

@Anacybele I'm very late with this, but if you're still missing friends in Team Julius, feel free to send friend request my way. My ID's in the sig,

Yeah, I am. Thanks. I'll send you a request. My player name is Kels, just so you can identify me. :P

[omegaxis1]

1 hour ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Although Athos after the Scouring was surprised to find Arcadia, a place where dragonkind and humans lived in peace. By the time the Eight Legends arose, I would think the Divines left Elibe for Arcadia or the Dragon's Gate, although a stray old Divine in isolation who helped would not be violating Athos's later surprise. 

Alternatively, they could have stumbled on research and relics the Divines didn't pack up when they left (feasible, it'd be hasted and forced flight) and those were then smelted and mixed together into the Divine Weapons. In a sense, the original Falchion is such a relic, if with intention that humans would use it, Gotoh nonetheless it seems didn't actively grant it to humanity when Medeus first arose, Anri had to actively seek it out from him. I don't think they could've left behind the Divine Weapons themselves though, since if dragonkind ever used them in the past against themselves, the clash should've triggered the Ending Winter sooner.

It would also sort of tie into why the Binding Blade, which holds the Fire Emblem, is the only weapon that can actually inflict effective damage to Idunn, when the other Legendary Weapons can't, despite how they're supposed to work on Manaketes. It uses the full power of the Fire Emblem, the power of the Divine Dragon, against a fellow Divine Dragon. 

New twist: The Fire Emblem is, in fact, Naga's Dragonstone. 

[Strullemia]

Unless something big happens I don't see Idunn losing so I'll just use 8x ballots 800 flags when we get a 3x multiplier. That way I'll have 400 flags extra for the next round.

[Interdimensional Observer]

1 minute ago, omegaxis1 said:

New twist: The Fire Emblem is, in fact, Naga's Dragonstone. 

Then does this mean the Sacred Twins were made with 10 of her 12 finger/toenails? And the Ragnell and Alondite her femurs?

Sacrificing everything you have for the benefit of the multiverse- such is the selfless legacy of Naga. You make your fangs into two swords and one shield, and given I'd assume there must be either 2 or 4 "great fangs" unless Naga regrows them, there may be yet another Naga tooth item somewhere. You also put some of your soul in a book on another continent, and you give your Dragonstone (although doesn't the Book of Naga's cover have a Dragonstone on it?) to a whole 'nother dimension. You give your brain sans memories to Gotoh, your heart to Bantu (how else is that dried tomato still alive in Awakening?), and your skin to Xane (explains the shapeshifting).

And this reminds me, Naga revisited Elibe later (I wrote this some time ago in FFtF when challenged to):

Spoiler

Naga, sensing from across the multiverse a realm in need of her help, discovered the Elibe dimension and then warped herself there. She arrives just as Bern conquers Arcadia, and quickly learning of the plight of the Arcadians, agreed to come to their aid. Naga then goes forth and asks to meet with the leaders of Bern, taking fearsome dragon form to strike fear and respect into them. News of this flows to Zephiel, whom upon hearing of a dragon, albeit one in opposition to him, comes immediately to Arcadia. Zephiel, in deference to dragons, willingly knell before Naga and accepted her call for a dinner between the two of them, over which they could discuss their views. The venue of the former abode of Athos, where Forblaze is tucked away.

The menu consists of steak made from an aged wyvern retired from combat and transport duties, it is served alongside greens fertilized with human nightsoil, yogurt made from fermented cow's milk is the dessert. Water is the beverage of choice. All of this was arranged by Naga.

Zephiel politely greets Naga, and Naga the same to Zephiel. Zephiel asks Naga a long series of questions concerning herself and her world. Zephiel finds Naga to be very much like Jahn, her emotions are controlled, she is free of vice, she led her people into a golden age of such marvels of civilization that humanity could never achieve he believes. And yet, Zephiel is infuriated by Naga, she is for all her apparent wisdom, too naive, too stupid, why does she trust in irredeemable humanity so? How could she just let her people abandon the earth to humanity without a fight? She could be his draconic messiah, the one who shall replace humanity with a far far far better draconic world. Naga can sense Zephiel's emotions, and inquiring what made him so, she pities him. Zephiel, considering himself as a wretched human, does not want such pity, he would like her to end him, but only after eradicating the rest of humanity first. 

Naga attempts to convince Zephiel he is wrong about humanity and about dragonkind. Although she cannot speak of too much of Elibean dragonkind, she does make it clear in her world that dragons are emotional creatures, capable of the great sin of pride, contrary to what this Jahn has told him. She relays the tales of the Earth Dragons and its allies, and all the woe they made not just upon humanity, but dragonkind itself. She too, having caught a glimpse of Idunn before, uses her, having sensed something was wrong in her, the victim of others of her species, as evidence against the perfection. She pities Zephiel, and sees in him, were it not for his despair, just what humanity need to make a fair successor to dragonkind, nay able to bring civilization to a higher level than that which dragonkind left off at. Whereas Zephiel is coldly frustrated by the entire meeting, remaining unswayed through the whole of it, Naga remains serenely calm, herself unmoving in her views just the same despite the difference in emotions.

Returning to the meal. Zephiel drinks only the water, not touching the food. Naga on the other hand drinks the water and eats all of the food. Naga asks why Zephiel has not touched any of it. Zephiel, proving his brilliance, replies he could see the meaning behind the dishes. The wyvern steak is symbolic of dragonkind, and he will not eat of those superior to himself. The greens were cultivated using human waste, therefore he will not eat of them either. Although not as high in his mind as dragons, Zephiel still considers all other lifeforms superior to humans, and thus refused to partake of the yogurt derived from a cow. Water, a lifeless thing derived therefore from nothing holy nor base nor in between, is all he will consume.

Zephiel then wants Naga's reasons for partaking of each. Naga considers the natural world to have natural transitions, and natural behaviors. The aged wyvern died a natural death after a long life of service, she acknowledges its death and eats it. She sees that human waste has given rise to fresh greens, and disregarding the fact that it arose from humans, eats it. She too eats the yogurt, finding nothing wrong in the partaking of cattle. She thus accepts the death of dragonkind, the rise of humanity, and all other organisms as they are involved in the natural cycle being discussed. She then states she would not object to cows eating the meat of humans, if that were the natural course of things, but that she will oppose unnatural changes in this process.  

Sophia then steps in towards the end of the dinner, and if with many ellipses in a shy and unprepared manner, lays out the case of Arcadia. Sophia expresses the faint hope of peaceful human and dragon coexistence coprosperity. Zephiel rejects this proposition outright, finding humanity to be the problem. Naga says she would like to believe in the possibility of coexistence, but finds dragonkind in its sheer power, longevity, and physiological problems (degeneration in her world, the post-Ending Winter clime in this one), to make dragonkind ill-suited to be with humanity on a global, widespread basis. In effect, Naga agrees with Zephiel that dragons and humankind can't truly coexist, albeit she pins the problem of coexistence on the opposite group as him.

Sophia then departs, leaving Zephiel and Naga alone once more. Seeing Naga's annoying gaze into his heart, Zephiel then admits, grudgingly, that he would like to see Arcadia as the world, that he would like to coexist with dragonkind. But he is not to be a hypocrite, no humanity is devoid of sin, no human can truly coexist with dragons, as long as any human exists, dragonkind will be in danger from its vices. Once the rest of humanity is with certainty eradicated, he will then end himself to complete things, but until then he will not rest nor consider death. Naga then explains that she accepted death once before (this is Awakening Naga I forgot to add), leaving humanity behind to finish what she believed it could do, when it was not certain the threat of dragonkind to it was gone. Zephiel considers this foolish, but at the same time daring and honorable.

By this point, the dinner, which had begun at an early 4:00 PM or so, has dragged on through the night. Although Zephiel has been worn in his arguments with Naga, he is still quite alert, ever interested in hearing what comes from Naga's mouth. It has just passed 5:00 AM, the Sun shall soon rise again, this "dinner" has gone on for so long. Accepting things have gone on for too long, Zephiel and Naga adjourn, they shall later that day reach their decisions. Zephiel, after getting a few hours' sleep, orders Bern withdraw from Arcadia immediately taking nothing from there with them and to never return, as a concession to Naga. Naga for her part withdraws to her world, trusting in the good humans of Elibe to defeat Zephiel.

But before Naga departs, the next time Zephiel slumbers, she visits him in her spiritual form. She dives into his soul and takes with her a fragment of it. Then traveling back in time, she goes back to before humanity came to exist in Archanea, Valentia, and Jugdral. Naga then incarnates Zephiel's soul fragment as a young man with no memories, devoid of clothes. A savage, he quickly prodigally learns to hunt and forage. It is not long before he stumbles on a group of ancient dragonkind, and befriends many dragons, which are taken by this courious thing. The savage Zephiel falls in a love with a female dragon, who is the first to learn how to take human form. In human form, this female dragon is visited by savage Zephiel, and begets many children with him. These children interbreed and also marry other dragons, over time however, the dragon side gradually fades away, creating the human race, which spreads out over all the continents.

 

[omegaxis1]

5 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Then does this mean the Sacred Twins were made with 10 of her 12 finger/toenails? And the Ragnell and Alondite her femurs?

Sacrificing everything you have for the benefit of the multiverse- such is the selfless legacy of Naga. You make your fangs into two swords and one shield, and given I'd assume there must be either 2 or 4 "great fangs" unless Naga regrows them, there may be yet another Naga tooth item somewhere. You also put some of your soul in a book on another continent, and you give your Dragonstone (although doesn't the Book of Naga's cover have a Dragonstone on it?) to a whole 'nother dimension. You give your brain sans memories to Gotoh, your heart to Bantu (how else is that dried tomato still alive in Awakening?), and your skin to Xane (explains the shapeshifting).

Well... 

Quote

Valentian Revelations Chapter 17
During the colossal battle, some of the ruler’s fangs splintered and scattered across the realm.

And I sort of have a new theory regarding Naga.

Spoiler

Honestly, with how Tiki becomes Naga and how "Naga" became a title, it almost feels like "Naga" is a true god that uses a Divine Dragons as a vessel across the worlds.

 

[Sylphid]

3 hours ago, Anacybele said:

Yeah, I am. Thanks. I'll send you a request. My player name is Kels, just so you can identify me. :P

Accepted just now. I have Maribelle as my lead right now, hopefully she's helpful. I usually switch around her and my +10 A!Tiki.

[Diovani Bressan]

I used 800 flags right now, getting ~580k. I used all by battle ballots, however I will have full ballots for the final multiplier, and I still have 800 flags left. I know that Duma will not win, but I will manage to get a pretty good score!

[HK Motendra]

7 hours ago, Lau said:

Not too keen on these changes, tbh. Though, I suppose I'll get used to them soon enough.

Gharnef and Julius seem to be keeping up with each other, no shocker there.

@Motendra God bless your Michalis.

Wait really? Considering who we're up against i was under the assumption i i ought to switch over to my Navarre.  But if he's working out for you then by all means!

[Sunwoo]

Hilarious anecdote time.

Yesterday I asked my friend who also plays Heroes which character she was supporting. She didn't remember the name of the character whose side she was on, so she said that she was supporting the ugliest one.

I thought that meant Gharnef, so I asked her as much. She really didn't remember his name, so she described him as the one that turns into a dragon. Now, she would know Grima's name so I was like, "wait, do you mean Garon?"

tl;dr Garon is the ugliest character in this game according to my friend. But I'm surprised that she didn't go with Grima, since she does seem to like every variant of Robin.

[Lau]

12 minutes ago, Motendra said:

Wait really? Considering who we're up against i was under the assumption i i ought to switch over to my Navarre.  But if he's working out for you then by all means!

I'm getting matched up against a lot of Brave Hectors, so your Michalis is doing wonders for me. It's funny, because I was debating whether or not to switch out my Marth. I don't know if you're getting him, but if you are, is he doing alright? I can switch him out if you'd like.

[Jave]

19 minutes ago, Sunwoo said:

Hilarious anecdote time.

Yesterday I asked my friend who also plays Heroes which character she was supporting. She didn't remember the name of the character whose side she was on, so she said that she was supporting the ugliest one.

I thought that meant Gharnef, so I asked her as much. She really didn't remember his name, so she described him as the one that turns into a dragon. Now, she would know Grima's name so I was like, "wait, do you mean Garon?"

tl;dr Garon is the ugliest character in this game according to my friend. But I'm surprised that she didn't go with Grima, since she does seem to like every variant of Robin.

If someone told me that they’re supporting the ugliest character on this VG, my first thought would be Surtr. 

[Sunwoo]

2 minutes ago, Jave said:

If someone told me that they’re supporting the ugliest character on this VG, my first thought would be Surtr. 

I think I literally forgot he existed again.

Even so, still think that Gharnef looks uglier in Heroes.

[Interdimensional Observer]

50 minutes ago, Sunwoo said:

Even so, still think that Gharnef looks uglier in Heroes.

I don't think there has ever been a good looking Gharnef, a history of him visually.:

Mainline FE:

Spoiler

FE1:

 And he happens to be a Bantu recolor (or vice versa): 

 

FE3:

FE11:

FE12:

 

And various spinoff sources:

Spoiler

Old TCG:

Cipher:

 

Warriors:

 

The Two-Episode Anime:

 

Tokyo Mirage Sessions:

I don't think I need to list FEH here.

 

As for Garon, I dislike having to access the Grail menu, his face is real creepy. 

 

3 hours ago, omegaxis1 said:

And I sort of have a new theory regarding Naga.

The issue with it is Naga not telling us there is a god that controls them. You'd think she'd be frank about what is a god if she says she isn't. It just being a title endowed with great responsibilities, including controlling massive reserves of non-sentient energy sounds better to me. Also makes that one second of Julia a little bit weirder, she would be then possessed by somebody who is themselves possessed, unless this deity left out the Naga middlewoman during this part.

[HK Motendra]

1 hour ago, Lau said:

I'm getting matched up against a lot of Brave Hectors, so your Michalis is doing wonders for me. It's funny, because I was debating whether or not to switch out my Marth. I don't know if you're getting him, but if you are, is he doing alright? I can switch him out if you'd like.

Your Marth's actually been whats carrying most of my battles, so you've nothing to worry about haha

[Tybrosion]

28 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

As for Garon, I dislike having to access the Grail menu, his face is real creepy. 

What are you talking about? That's one of the best winning smiles I've ever seen. That, and Ippei was simply being faithful to source material:

Spoiler

 

Edited April 2, 2019 by Tybrosion

[Robert Stewart]

Has there been much back and forth on any of the matches? On team Julius, we've been ahead for pretty much the entire time.

I hope the new system doesn't mean a return of the most popular character always winning.

[Tybrosion]

8 minutes ago, Robert of Normandy said:

I hope the new system doesn't mean a return of the most popular character always winning.

Oh no, the horror of the most popular character winning in a mode that was intended to be a popularity contest!

Yeah.....Duma has literally never had a lead on Idunn and never will at this rate. I hope the winner of Julius v. Gharnef is already prepared to take a colossal one up their ass in Round 2.