Book 1 5*s will still be summonable on most focus circles

[XRay]

49 minutes ago, Rezzy said:

Maybe they could add the Gen 1 units as obtainable by Grails.  It's not exactly cheap, but at least we'd be able to get them somehow.

I think it would be nice, but I personally would not spend Grails on them. It could help free players or players with different resource priorities to get them, but it still feels like a cheapskate move from my view when they could have just demoted them.

Who is going to whale for Luke outside of his fans? If Intelligent Systems cannot even bother to put him on a Focus to monetize him, they might as well just demote him.

44 minutes ago, Lord-Zero said:

Good thing I don’t care about any of that “merge project” nonsense. It’s quite simple: if you want something that requires grails for merges or some particular skill fodder, save them up even if it takes months.

You know what is simpler? Spending Orbs and pay to win. The opportunity cost of using Orbs is so much lower compared to using Grails. Whales are swimming in Orbs. Whales are not swimming in Grails.

44 minutes ago, Lord-Zero said:

Playing for e-sports in this mobage is really quite silly but that’s just me. 

“Sub-optimal” or not, grails are still an option and LA!Eliwood can provide you with Goad Armor if you want it that badly. Just a few months ago, that option wasn’t available. 

You might not give a damn about competitive play and resource management, but others do and enjoy it. It is no different from doing LTC runs or other play throughs with certain restrictions for the main series.

Just because you do not think it is suboptimal does not mean that others think the same way. It would be like me telling an LTC player who is having trouble with a chapter to just grind maps outside the story; that defeats the purpose of an LTC run.

By the same token telling whales who are into maximizing resource efficiency to just spend Grails on Skill Inheritance defeats the point ranking high to get all those resources in the first place.

Edited April 6, 2019 by XRay

[Ice Dragon]

16 minutes ago, Lord-Zero said:

Playing for e-sports in this mobage is really quite silly but that’s just me. 

I like seeing the characters and units I like the most be as strong as they can be. It has nothing to do with competition. You can dismiss my arguments all you want, but it doesn't change the fact that using Grails for Skill Inheritance is mathematically a waste of resources.

The best thing about science and math is that they are real whether you believe in them or not.

 

10 minutes ago, Othin said:

High-spending players may be an exception, as @Ice Dragon described, but for free or low-spending players, I think this tends to be pretty good even if it looks really unsettling.

I don't think it's at all a matter of how much you spend so much as what you want out of this game.

The change to the summoning pool is bad if

• You don't summon often from secondary banners and really want specific characters that have now been removed.

The change to the summoning pool is good if

• You don't summon often from secondary banners and would prefer to have newer characters.

The change to the summoning pool really didn't do anything for you if

• You summon often from secondary banners.

That's really it and that's all it boils down to. Some players benefit from the change. Some players are reaching for their pitchforks.

Really, considering that pitybreakers give you a ridiculously low chance of actually getting the character you want to begin with, the issue for me (as much as I'll keep being annoyed about Hector) is really that they chose a lazy option of just cutting all characters from Book 1 wholesale rather than taking the time to understand what players actually want and either using a more tailored approach (which would indicate that they at least tried to think about the issue) or announcing an alternate method (a shop or something) or source (more banners or something) of obtaining the cut characters. As it is right now, it looks as if they didn't even bother to think about what they were doing or how players would respond to it.

 

And part of what bothers me about it is simply the fact that, while I may be a software developer for a now-large company, talking with customers to learn their needs, wants, and concerns and getting feedback about the direction of our development is a huge part of my job. While it may be unreasonable to hold developers elsewhere to those standards, this really just reeks of embarrassing levels of laziness in design.

[Othin]

2 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

I like seeing the characters and units I like the most be as strong as they can be. It has nothing to do with competition. You can dismiss my arguments all you want, but it doesn't change the fact that using Grails for Skill Inheritance is mathematically a waste of resources.

The best thing about science and math is that they are real whether you believe in them or not.

 

I don't think it's at all a matter of how much you spend so much as what you want out of this game.

The change to the summoning pool is bad if

• You don't summon often from secondary banners and really want specific characters that have now been removed.

The change to the summoning pool is good if

• You don't summon often from secondary banners and would prefer to have newer characters.

The change to the summoning pool really didn't do anything for you if

• You summon often from secondary banners.

That's really it and that's all it boils down to. Some players benefit from the change. Some players are reaching for their pitchforks.

Really, considering that pitybreakers give you a ridiculously low chance of actually getting the character you want to begin with, the issue for me (as much as I'll keep being annoyed about Hector) is really that they chose a lazy option of just cutting all characters from Book 1 wholesale rather than taking the time to understand what players actually want and either using a more tailored approach (which would indicate that they at least tried to think about the issue) or announcing an alternate method (a shop or something) or source (more banners or something) of obtaining the cut characters. As it is right now, it looks as if they didn't even bother to think about what they were doing or how players would respond to it.

 

And part of what bothers me about it is simply the fact that, while I may be a software developer for a now-large company, talking with customers to learn their needs, wants, and concerns and getting feedback about the direction of our development is a huge part of my job. While it may be unreasonable to hold developers elsewhere to those standards, this really just reeks of embarrassing levels of laziness in design.

The thing is that you have to be spending a lot for specific expectations out of the pitybreaker pool to have much likelihood of actually happening. That's certainly another relevant metric, though.

Their policy seems to be that past the initial demoted-or-not question, characters from the same banner get the same treatment for future rarity revisions. Which doesn't always work out super well, but I can see the desire to go with something simple rather than picking and choosing. But what seems completely nonsensical to me is the cutoff point. The CYL1 through Farfetched units are a bit dated by now, but they're still on an entirely different level from the units before them. I'd pitched the most likely demote possibility as "everything before CYL1"  and although this is different, it seems like a much more sane cutoff for this purpose as well.

[Ice Dragon]

3 minutes ago, Othin said:

The thing is that you have to be spending a lot for specific expectations out of the pitybreaker pool to have much likelihood of actually happening. That's certainly another relevant metric, though.

The difference between 0% and >0% is pretty big, though, and that's really the only difference that I think matters in this case. The new units getting an increase in their summon rate is pretty insignificant compared to the complete removal of the old units.

[Othin]

1 minute ago, Ice Dragon said:

The difference between 0% and >0% is pretty big, though, and that's really the only difference that I think matters in this case. The new units getting an increase in their summon rate is pretty insignificant compared to the complete removal of the old units.

The difference between "I will pull a copy of this unit via pitybreaker" and "I will not pull any (more) copies of this unit via pitybreaker" is big. "I will not pull any (more) copies of this unit, but I had a small chance of doing so that didn't end up happening" is really only significant in people's heads, not in what they actually get ingame.

I also think the increase in the odds of newer units is more significant to players who do less summoning. As one of those players, I have less likelihood of having as many as I want out of the newer units, so better odds of getting the ones I don't have is a big deal.

[Seafarer]

2 hours ago, Lewyn said:

Is Sumia the pegasus whisperer that bad?  She is a solid lance flier.  Reprisal lance+, Close defense and a good link skill her fodder isn't bad either.  Yes you are right the 3-4 star pool is super bloated and the good stuff like Fury 3, Desperation 3, Reposition, gets harder and harder to find/get.  They need to clean up the low rarity pool too.  Also yes some are saying it could have been much better, but many are acting like IS made things infinitely worse when for most people this change is going to benefit them immensely.

Sumia's not bad, per se, but she keeps breaking my pity rates and I don't want to see her again please and thank you.

As for the bold: I didn't say that. Quite the opposite. My problem with the 3-4* pool is lack of diversity. When I see a 3-4* unit, it's always a disappointment for me, because I have all of them already, whereas if they'd dropped the old 5* units, it could have been exciting again.

The 3-4* pool would need to bloat at least five times bigger than it would have been with the removed 5* units before I start to see bloat as a problem for that pool.

[Namero]

I have mixed feelings about this change. Being a collector, I primarily pull on new banners, and so am disappointed I won't be getting certain units that actually make me happy to be pity broken by (Hector/Takumi/Faye/Alm/Celica/Saber/Hinoka/Ninian/Brave Ike/Genny/Elise), but at least I won't end up having my day ruined by the likes of Mist, Luke, Jaffar, and Leo (and those are the only ones I can think of that I hated pulling, so I guess it's a loss overall lol).

Maybe they should have instead gone all the way: make it so you have 0% chance of getting any off focus five star unit at all on new/special hero banners (like with Legendary banners). Then it will be easier to set priorities since you know for sure what you'll be getting on new banners vs reruns.

Or an even better idea that would make everybody happy: give people the option to reject 5 star units and keep their pity rate. By rejecting a unit you get nothing, no increase to the pity rate, not even feathers, it's just orbs down the toilet, but you get to keep your pity rate. So you end up pulling Tibarn then might have to think carefully before rejecting that Sturdy impact skill; I'd certainly find it worth keeping most the time. Pulled Luke? Instant rejection!

Of course there is no way any such please-everybody-solutions would be taken. It'd reduce the gambling aspect of the game and not force people to waste as much money when they have shitty luck. Even if I wasn't a Wailord, I'd have found the game enjoyable enough to at least commit to buying the monthly orb packs just to give it support (as many I know do), but if they keep going in the greed-driven direction that is ticking off more and more of us, even that support might not be worth giving before long.

[Icelerate]

4 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

Unless they significantly increase the rate that the removed characters appear on secondary banners (because with the exception of CYL 1 characters, they pretty much cannot appear on primary banners anymore), they've pretty much just killed off these characters for players that want copies of them.

People who want to summon for gen1 5 star characters aren't going to be summoning on random banners hoping to get pity broken by them because the chance of getting pity broken by a unit you want is very slim. They will wait for them to be rerun as a focus and this change doesn't mean IS isn't going to make them focuses again. 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Just a few weeks ago I added Minerva to my collection from the 2017 Spring banner freebie pull. Pulling green since I was missing both of the green focus units on offer. How will I add the 13 units I'm still missing that were exiled after this update? Probably still through random freebie pulls. An abysmally low chance that wasn't meaningfully changed. It's still a fraction of a percent whose decrease can't be appreciated by flawed human brains like the one I own. Then again with how Legendary banners are going to be loaded with less units that I need to collect, I need to reevalutate where my orbs should go anyway for maximum chance of increasing my catalogue. With all these pity breakers removed, non Legendary Banners are much higher in value for my objective of collecting. I hope IS has also appropriately re-evaluated how it should do banners, since we've seen slightly less of these secondary banners in the last few months. With current prospects, these exiled units are as unobtainable as outdated seasonal units. Possibly less, since at least those seasonals will still appear once a year. Luke shows us there's no affirmative action for this sort of thing already in place.

[Mackc2]

Since they clearly want to take the greedy way out and not demote the year 1 5*'s, they could make this change significantly less shit by adding a daily/weekly summoning focus that just cycles focus between the removed characters so that they are more common than other 5*'s if you want them, since IS clearly seems to think they aren't worth being 5* but also too good for 4* or some bullshit.

[Ice Dragon]

3 hours ago, Othin said:

The difference between "I will pull a copy of this unit via pitybreaker" and "I will not pull any (more) copies of this unit via pitybreaker" is big. "I will not pull any (more) copies of this unit, but I had a small chance of doing so that didn't end up happening" is really only significant in people's heads, not in what they actually get ingame.

I also think the increase in the odds of newer units is more significant to players who do less summoning. As one of those players, I have less likelihood of having as many as I want out of the newer units, so better odds of getting the ones I don't have is a big deal.

1 hour ago, Icelerate said:

People who want to summon for gen1 5 star characters aren't going to be summoning on random banners hoping to get pity broken by them because the chance of getting pity broken by a unit you want is very slim. They will wait for them to be rerun as a focus and this change doesn't mean IS isn't going to make them focuses again. 

The idea is not that players are trying to pull for specific characters from the pitybreaker pool but that the possibility that they can appear still exists. Statistically, you will eventually get a copy as long as you keep at it (and the game servers are still up), even if it takes a long time.

In contrast, when the character is no longer in the pitybreaker pool, there is a zero chance that you will get them. Statistically, you will never get a copy regardless of how long you keep at it.

Edited April 6, 2019 by Ice Dragon

[Baldrick]

5 hours ago, XRay said:

Lucina and Lyn can still pity break you throughout the year.

You wouldn’t think it, based on the reactions of some people.

[Yukiko]

I'm pretty disappointed too about this decision, now if someone wants a gen 1 unit it's going to be more difficult... And being pitybroken on a skill banner/seasonal rerun banner it's still going to leave a lot of people disappointed... Especially considering that skills banners only last a few days.

I wonder if this would have been better: demoting most of the gen 1 units to 4 stars and bringing back the old four star focus banner and make it permanent banner. The twelve units you have a higher chance to find should change each week. In this way it would be easier to get merges and skills. 

They demoted only 12 heroes to the 3-4 stars pool. They are still bloating it, just much more slowly...

[Ice Dragon]

53 minutes ago, Baldrick said:

You wouldn’t think it, based on the reactions of some people.

It depends entirely on how often you pull from secondary banners. My guess is that the people reacting this way don't pull from them often outside of the free pull.

[Hilda]

What IS did would have been fine if they made them also purchasable via heroic grails for the double amount of grails and same limitations as in 20 copys max.

Or theymade a monthly rotation with them similar to Legendaries with 8% and 2 heroes for each color.

Dont get me wrong something had to be done but this was the poopiest way to do it.

[Baldrick]

1 hour ago, Ice Dragon said:

It depends entirely on how often you pull from secondary banners. My guess is that the people reacting this way don't pull from them often outside of the free pull.

No. Because they have a reduced chance of getting a specific old pitybreaker, but it's still possible.

The only way to say it's impossible to get an old pitybreaker is if one never pulls from old banners, not even the free pull.

16 minutes ago, Hilda said:

Dont get me wrong something had to be done but this was the poopiest way to do it.

Yeah. IS seems determined to show they don't care about anything but orb expenditure.

Edited April 6, 2019 by Baldrick

[Mau]

Ok so I did some math cause I keep seeing people go 'this is way better, now you only get pity breakers that are good!' and:

• There's 18 old units I don't have yet, of which there's only 3 I'd hate to see multiple times.
• There's 6 old units I already have and don't want to see anymore.
• There's 38 old units I want or wouldn't mind having, either because of wanting merges or having good fodder (I also count fodder that would normally cost 20k feathers to get from a 3/4*)

So all in all, there's only 9 units I'm being 'saved' from with this. And not even really, cause if I want those 38 units I like I still have to deal with those dupes.

Meanwhile in the pool that's left:

• There's 34 units I don't have yet, but quite a big number of 14 I wouldn't want to see a second time (and that while the chance to get them has just raised).
• On top of that, there's 3 units I already have and don't want to see again, so a total of 17 units I'd loathe to see multiple times.
• So there's now 37 units left that I wouldn't mind seeing, instead of what was before 75 units in total I wouldn't mind seeing.

So all that was done was take 38 units away from me and 'save' me from 9 units. Meanwhile there's still 17 units I'd really rather not be pity broken by so my situation hasn't improved much at all. It only got worsened cause there's a lot of units I want that I will very rarely see now and there's 17 units I hate that now have a bigger chance of pity breaking me.

[Cute Chao]

I think my problem with it is the 3-4* pool is still stale as hell. I was hoping that a demotion would inject new faces and new skills into the pool, but they've pretty much dismissed that. I'm going to keep summoning Raighs and Bartres. I have all the 3-4*s except Legault so colourless is pretty much the only colour that gives me more than a tiny bit of excitement for anything that isn't 5*. I miss the early days when I had none of the characters so everything was exciting. It made me happier to pull so I pulled more even for characters I wasn't as interested in. 

I still feel they should have taken each character on individual merit - stats and what they offer - and demoted certain ones into the 3-4* pool, while removing some of the current 3-4* units (again, on individual merits) into a free summon pool, using things like medals. 

That's my biggest problem with it all. This is their solution to a bloated pool, and it doesn't touch on the stale pool. I know it would have been a temporary fix... I still keep wishing that they just introduced less popular units at 3-4* like they did with Kaze, but that's too much of a pipe dream at this point v.v 

[Othin]

8 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

The idea is not that players are trying to pull for specific characters from the pitybreaker pool but that the possibility that they can appear still exists. Statistically, you will eventually get a copy as long as you keep at it (and the game servers are still up), even if it takes a long time.

In contrast, when the character is no longer in the pitybreaker pool, there is a zero chance that you will get them. Statistically, you will never get a copy regardless of how long you keep at it.

Statistically, if I keep doing free pulls on secondary banners and the game servers stay up long enough, I'll eventually get all the Book 1 units I'm missing even if I never spend another orb on a secondary banner, and even if those units never show up as focus units again.

In reality, of course, the game servers will almost definitely not stay up long enough for that. But they probably aren't going to stay up as long as they would've needed to for me to get pitybroken by all the launch units I'm missing even without this change, either. The odds are much worse this way, of course, but there are also better odds of getting all the Book 2-3 units I'd like.

In any case, taking a step back, I'm sure they'll do something to make the old 5* units more available. A few months ago, we finally got Heroic Grails as a way to access more copies of GHB/TT units, a major long-standing complaint about unit availability. I don't know if it'll be soon, but even if they didn't consider the idea at all before the announcement, I feel pretty safe in saying they'll make some sort of solution within the next year. Might be 4-5* banners, might be Heroic Grails, might be something else. I don't expect everyone to like it, but I expect it to exist somehow. As this announcement should remind us, IS does hear the complaints people make and frequently makes changes accordingly, even if their solutions aren't always the ones we expect or ask for.

[Rezzy]

7 hours ago, Hilda said:

What IS did would have been fine if they made them also purchasable via heroic grails for the double amount of grails and same limitations as in 20 copys max.

Or theymade a monthly rotation with them similar to Legendaries with 8% and 2 heroes for each color.

Dont get me wrong something had to be done but this was the poopiest way to do it.

I was thinking equal or less amount of Grails, considering how slowly we get Grails, double the amount would take forever.

3 hours ago, Cute Chao said:

I think my problem with it is the 3-4* pool is still stale as hell. I was hoping that a demotion would inject new faces and new skills into the pool, but they've pretty much dismissed that. I'm going to keep summoning Raighs and Bartres. I have all the 3-4*s except Legault so colourless is pretty much the only colour that gives me more than a tiny bit of excitement for anything that isn't 5*. I miss the early days when I had none of the characters so everything was exciting. It made me happier to pull so I pulled more even for characters I wasn't as interested in. 

I still feel they should have taken each character on individual merit - stats and what they offer - and demoted certain ones into the 3-4* pool, while removing some of the current 3-4* units (again, on individual merits) into a free summon pool, using things like medals. 

That's my biggest problem with it all. This is their solution to a bloated pool, and it doesn't touch on the stale pool. I know it would have been a temporary fix... I still keep wishing that they just introduced less popular units at 3-4* like they did with Kaze, but that's too much of a pipe dream at this point v.v 

I have every 3-4*.  I was hoping to get more potential +10 projects, since we got only 12 demotions from a year and a half of gameplay and none of them weren't already available at 4*.  I care more about getting more variety to the 3-4* pool than getting pity broken.  There's still duds you can get post book 2.

[Ice Dragon]

1 hour ago, Othin said:

Statistically, if I keep doing free pulls on secondary banners and the game servers stay up long enough, I'll eventually get all the Book 1 units I'm missing even if I never spend another orb on a secondary banner, and even if those units never show up as focus units again.

In reality, of course, the game servers will almost definitely not stay up long enough for that. But they probably aren't going to stay up as long as they would've needed to for me to get pitybroken by all the launch units I'm missing even without this change, either. The odds are much worse this way, of course, but there are also better odds of getting all the Book 2-3 units I'd like.

The probability of getting a specific pitybreaker unit is actually not as terrible as you might think on time scales reasonable for the game's lifetime as long as you skew in the direction of that color a bit. While it's obviously not statistically guaranteed on these time scales, it's still highly probable to do so, unlike taking only the free pull.

Using the Rulers of the Laguz banner as an example (because it's the most recent banner I have built on my spreadsheet), and using blue as the example color due to its middling position in terms of sniping efficiency,

• You have a 0.1089% chance of pulling a specific blue unit from the 5-star standard summoning pool when sniping blue (at base rates).
• Counting summon sessions with no blue units, it costs an average of 5.40 orbs per blue summon (at base rates).
• If you spend 200 orbs every month on sniping blue summons, you summon about 37 blue units per month.
• This means you have a 3.95% chance of pulling that specific blue unit each month from pitybreakers alone or a 38.4% chance of pulling that specific blue unit over the course of a year.
• Over the course of 3 years, that's a probability of 76.6%.

If all you do is summon the free summon from every secondary banner and otherwise only summon from primary banners, you get about 6 blue pulls per month, meaning it will take more than 6 times as long to reach the same probabilities for each case.

Edited April 6, 2019 by Ice Dragon

[Othin]

15 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

The probability of getting a specific pitybreaker unit is actually not as terrible as you might think on time scales reasonable for the game's lifetime as long as you skew in the direction of that color a bit. While it's obviously not statistically guaranteed on these time scales, it's still highly probable to do so, unlike taking only the free pull.

Using the Rulers of the Laguz banner as an example (because it's the most recent banner I have built on my spreadsheet), and using blue as the example color due to its middling position in terms of sniping efficiency,

• You have a 0.1089% chance of pulling a specific blue unit from the 5-star standard summoning pool when sniping blue (at base rates).
• Counting summon sessions with no blue units, it costs an average of 5.40 orbs per blue summon (at base rates).
• If you spend 200 orbs every month on sniping blue summons, you summon about 37 blue units per month.
• This means you have a 3.95% chance of pulling that specific blue unit each month from pitybreakers alone or a 38.4% chance of pulling that specific blue unit over the course of a year.
• Over the course of 3 years, that's a probability of 76.6%.

If all you do is summon the free summon from every secondary banner and otherwise only summon from primary banners, you get about 6 blue pulls per month, meaning it will take more than 6 times as long to reach the same probabilities for each case.

Huh, that is indeed a lot less terrible than I thought.

[daisy jane]

21 hours ago, Dr. Tarrasque said:

 

You can keep her as fodder for Close Def 3 which is currently 5* exclusive (or Seal) while Jaffar's best offer is Life and Death 3 which is available in the 4* pool with Sothe.

If it's a matter of preference here, the there's nothing to say. If it's a matter of practical usage, Olwen offers better fodder with Swift Sparrow 2 than what Julia and Deirdre offer and Olwen's Thunderhead is still quite good against Dragons and she's also useful against other units and has better speed.

Skill inheritance invalidates this. A gen 1 with skills that have been power-crept is worse fodder than later unit with more coveted skills. Corrin offers nothing worthwhile if you don't care about him. OG lyn has Defiant ATK and Spur Speed which are power-crept and available from 3-4* pool the list goes on. If you want a specific hero, then yes, it is a shame that they're not available in the new summon banners but as the probability examples shown earlier, you are better off shooting for those in focus banners anyway.

The only real loss in terms of coveted skills are Hector for his Distant Counter but it is now available on a unit that is still in the altered summoning pool (Nailah) as well as Legendary/Mythic Hero summonings. Close Counter on the other hand, needs a new unit for fodder.

Yes being pity broken sucks but the fact is that it isn't as simple as "any pity break I don't want is lousy", that all depends on the player and the metagame. The omissions weren't the best move for the consumers but the benefits of it outweigh the negative. I'm missing out on Alm if I were to summon on new banner and I still think this is an improvement over nothing.

but that's not the point. 

something pity breaking you sucks, regardless.  if I don't like beasts, regardless if they have good fodder or not it doesn't change the fact that it's a not a "good" pity break for me. you know who would be? Elincia. Alm. Celica.so If i get a high rate and get broken by a unit i'd never use (or i have to legit figure out who i am going to kill X for their A skill who doesn't benefit anyone (IN their A skill) then it's still a bad pity break. SI doesn't invalidate it. so saying that "these units are better - is relative. for some people they'd rather be broken by a Leo than a Swordheart. for others they are fine. 

[mampfoid]

14 hours ago, Hilda said:

What IS did would have been fine if they made them also purchasable via heroic grails for the double amount of grails and same limitations as in 20 copys max.

Or theymade a monthly rotation with them similar to Legendaries with 8% and 2 heroes for each color.

Dont get me wrong something had to be done but this was the poopiest way to do it.

Exactly my feelings. 

Demotions of those 5* would have been nice. They could have removed Raigh and Co from the pool (to make it less bloated) and made them available like free units. But even paying Grails for those 5* units would have been ok for me. 

[Strullemia]

On 6-4-2019 at 3:34 AM, Ice Dragon said:

I like seeing the characters and units I like the most be as strong as they can be. It has nothing to do with competition. You can dismiss my arguments all you want, but it doesn't change the fact that using Grails for Skill Inheritance is mathematically a waste of resources.

The best thing about science and math is that they are real whether you believe in them or not.

 

I don't think it's at all a matter of how much you spend so much as what you want out of this game.

The change to the summoning pool is bad if

• You don't summon often from secondary banners and really want specific characters that have now been removed.

 

On 6-4-2019 at 7:54 AM, Ice Dragon said:

The idea is not that players are trying to pull for specific characters from the pitybreaker pool but that the possibility that they can appear still exists. Statistically, you will eventually get a copy as long as you keep at it (and the game servers are still up), even if it takes a long time.

In contrast, when the character is no longer in the pitybreaker pool, there is a zero chance that you will get them. Statistically, you will never get a copy regardless of how long you keep at it.

This is exactly my problem with this.

I spend more orbs on new heroes banners or legendary banners than skill/TT/GHB banners so I almost feel forced to spend orbs on these banners even if I don't want to.