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Will Genealogy of the Holy War be the next remake?


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Will Genealogy of the holy war be the next remake?  

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  1. 1. Will Genealogy of the holy war be the next remake?



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3 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Specifically referring to FE1, it'd be the fourth remake, since FE12 left out the War of Shadows completely. The War of Heroes is totally its own thing and should be counted apart from the War of Shadows.

Yeah, but nobody ever says they want a FE1 or FE11 remake and JUST that. They say they want an Archanea remake, implying they want both. There's also no reason for those two games to be separated since we'd want them to look similar for consistency and they share the same roster of units and classes, but FE11+12 just demonstrate the money grubbing world we live in. Books 1 and 2 on switch? 120 dollars, please. So, If they did do another remake for FE1, it stands to reason that a remake of Book 2 is coming next as a separate release. Everybody would expect it and ask for it so they can get back to the games more deserving of a remake. I tire of this cycle.

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2 hours ago, Decerd said:

I hope not. Of all the older FE games, Geneology is the worst and most overrated title. I hope it gets forgotten forever.

That's not fair to the people who want to experience it without going through emulation.

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4 hours ago, This boi uses Nino said:

You're joking, Gaiden maps even though shorter are the most uninteresting thing only fighting occurs ever! Except the last map where it's kill boss AKA Duma. In Genealogy it's seize which not only is the best map objective but also there's way more to do in every map.

Gonna be honest, Gaiden/SoV's maps aren't that great but i had a lot more fun with them compared to Geneaolgy's maps for the same reasons you've heard. In general, i think FE4's maps are badly designed in general. That one map from FE7 Hector Mode is what FE4's maps should've been.

________________________________________________________________________

Anyway, my thoughts. Will FE4 be the next remake? Probably. Do i want it to be the next remake? Nah. Jugdral is my least favorite FE saga. Here's the thing, even though SoV is amazing, it shows that IS won't fix some of the more fundamental problems. In SoV, that is the maps, especially desert ones. So what things can i see an FE4 remake not fixing? Let's take a look

  • Villages and bandits: Saving a village that hasn't been pillaged gets you the full reward. The problem? Bandits are positioned near or on the villages the moment the map starts. 
  • Unit Balance: Yeah, mounted and Holy Blood characters will still be busted
  • Pawn Shop: Trading is an objectively better mechanic but nah, gotta keep the spirit of FE4 alive by wasting your time every time you wanna trade.
  • Heavily redundant classes: I don't see the need of "Axe Knight, Lance Knight, Sword Knight" when you can just roll them into one and save yourself the trouble. Radiant Dawn did this too for some reason.
  • The maps themselves.

I think the most obvious fix IS will do is replacing the Love System with Support Convos.

 

 

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FE4 is unique with its map designs and pawn shop/personal gold trading system, lot of people love FE4 for that.

And there are tons of other people complaining and hate FE4 for exactly just that.

That's why we won't see a FE4 remake soon, it is very difficult to satisfy them all.

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4 hours ago, Glennstavos said:

Yeah, but nobody ever says they want a FE1 or FE11 remake and JUST that. They say they want an Archanea remake, implying they want both. There's also no reason for those two games to be separated since we'd want them to look similar for consistency and they share the same roster of units and classes, but FE11+12 just demonstrate the money grubbing world we live in. Books 1 and 2 on switch? 120 dollars, please. So, If they did do another remake for FE1, it stands to reason that a remake of Book 2 is coming next as a separate release. Everybody would expect it and ask for it so they can get back to the games more deserving of a remake. I tire of this cycle.

Keep in mind Mystery of the Emblem and its remake have never made it outside of Japan, which means most FE fans have only experienced half of Marth's story. That's reason enough for people to want it to get remade again. Please don't bring up emulation - many people, including myself, lack the means to do so.

There's no telling how much Nintendo would charge for an Archanea remake. They could bundle them together - they've done it before - or they could release them separately at a cheaper price. I'm well aware of how Nintendo is pricing its ports, but they're really spontaneous with their remakes.

And who decides which games are deserving of remakes? The best selling games? In that case, Mystery of the Emblem, Awakening, and Fates are all next in line for a remake. The games that never made it to the west? Okay, so that's Genealogy, Thracia, Binding Blade and...Mystery of the Emblem.

At the end of the day, IS will remake whichever game they choose. It's a remake, you don't have to buy it.

Edited by Lau
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1 hour ago, Armagon said:

Heavily redundant classes: I don't see the need of "Axe Knight, Lance Knight, Sword Knight" when you can just roll them into one and save yourself the trouble. Radiant Dawn did this too for some reason.

Tellius used Jugdral as its ancestral FE inspiration, just as Elibe used Archanea and Sacred Stones used Gaiden. Awakening used pretty much every prior game for inspiration, while Fates used none in particular. This inspiration expressed itself in multiple ways, such as Micaiah having silver hair and being a Light magic user like Deidre and Julia. The choice to not have a single Cavalier and go instead for four Weapon Knights was another thing done in this spirit, as was making Valkyrie Sword & Staff as opposed to Anima/Light & Staff as in the GBA games.

Although, in case you haven't actually gotten to Tellius yet and just happen to know that offhand, they did consolidate things at the higher tiers.

  • Weapon Knights in FE9 get to pick any weapon type on promotion to add to their lineup. Geoffrey and Titania have their second weapon type fixed however, being pre-promoted.
  • While Paladins continue to be monotype in RD, at the 3rd tier (which is really just the second for the majority of units), Lance and Bow Paladins combine into Silver Knights, while Sword and Axe unite into Gold Knights. Yet in which weapon type they get their SS rank depends on the unit's earlier class. Oscar starting as a Lance Paladin gets his SS in Lances, and only an S in Bows, while Astrid, a Bow Paladin initially, gets her SS in Bows and an S in Lances.
  • Similarly in RD, the monotype Armor Knights gain a second weapon type on reaching General, and they get the third melee physical weapon type once a Marshal. -Mages on becoming Sages also gain the two Anima types they lacked at tier 1 (although they maintain an element in their names). And in both these cases, their highest weapon rank (not that it matters save for the SS) is reserved for their original weapon affinity- Meg can only SS Swords, Ilyana SS Thunder.

 

Edited by Interdimensional Observer
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9 hours ago, This boi uses Nino said:

You're joking, Gaiden maps even though shorter are the most uninteresting thing only fighting occurs ever! Except the last map where it's kill boss AKA Duma. In Genealogy it's seize which not only is the best map objective but also there's way more to do in every map and please, horseback units in Gaiden were also pretty nice to have because of the long maps, or the whitewings in the hellish desert chapters.

I disagree here - Gaiden/SoV's maps aren't amazing, sure, but they're still leagues above Genealogy's maps, which are needlessly bloated. I'd say FE4's maps are the worst designed overall since they take FOREVER to clear, which isn't helped by having the slowest enemy phases ever. Also, the big maps just do not work in a series like this, where all it takes is one mistake or bad RNG to permanently lose a unit.

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I just came here to see FE4's maps get bashed by a certain someone, and I did not get disappointed! 

 

Anyways I would definitely like to see a remake of Judgral and I do not see no single reason why they should not become the next parts of getting a remake. FE1, 3 and 2 had a remake. 3 before 2 simply because it was connected storywise to 1. 4 would be next after my logic... 

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I can't wait for a FE5 remake just so they can make Reinhardt playable after capture. And then say that's what canonically happened.

And for that to happen we need a FE4 remake first.

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I never understood the complaints on unit balance. Every fire emblem has broken units and useless ones, why should FE4 be harshly judged for it? They clearly want whoever they want to be strictly "better", why expect anything more or less?

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47 minutes ago, lightcosmo said:

I never understood the complaints on unit balance. Every fire emblem has broken units and useless ones, why should FE4 be harshly judged for it? They clearly want whoever they want to be strictly "better", why expect anything more or less?

Because it's far and away more prominent in Genealogy than in any other FE game. Unmounted units all but get invalidated thanks to the giant maps, and weapon balance is practically nonexistent. And speaking of weapons, there's the holy weapons, which practically vault their users into Game Breaker territory, ESPECIALLY Balmung and Forseti, because +20 to the most important stat in the game is clearly fair and balanced.

Edited by Shadow Mir
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8 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

Because it's far and away more prominent in Genealogy than in any other FE game. Unmounted units all but get invalidated thanks to the giant maps, and weapon balance is practically nonexistent. And speaking of weapons, there's the holy weapons, which practically vault their users into Game Breaker territory, ESPECIALLY Balmung and Forseti, because +20 to the most important stat in the game is clearly fair and balanced.

Well how can unmounteds be invalid but then balmung be game breaking at the same time? And a lot of fe games have weapons that are too good, it's not like game specific. They're just for fun, I think. Expecting them to balance something is expecting alot, I think. Also, I personally like the maps the way they are as well, I would take them over most close-quarter not much to do maps, personally, of course.

Edited by lightcosmo
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The problem with remaking fe4 is the question, who are we gonna make it for? Do you make a game that the people who like the original game will enjoy and alienate 75% of your modern fanbase? Or will you make the standard Fire Emblem game with the fe13 format which will alienate 95% of the fe4 fans and run the risk that fe4's reputation will damage how casual fans will look at it which will result in a big loss? It's like remaking Fates in a way that I would like. People who liked Fates won't buy it because features that they liked are removed and I won't buy it because I don't like Fates.

I think that IS knows this and that they won't remake fe4 and probably remake fe6. That game is already familiar with modern fans in a positive way and has more similarities with modern Fire Emblem which makes it easier to market to the general audience.

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On 4/6/2019 at 10:49 AM, lightcosmo said:

Well how can unmounteds be invalid but then balmung be game breaking at the same time? And a lot of fe games have weapons that are too good, it's not like game specific. They're just for fun, I think. Expecting them to balance something is expecting alot, I think. 

I said "all but" invalidated. Foot units might be able to get some use here and there. And Balmung is a sword, aka one of the best weapon types in the game. The speed boost, I already mentioned, but still, most other holy weapons that boost speed tend to be heavy enough that most, if not all, of the speed boost is cancelled out. Besides that, it's still a 30 might beatstick. As for other games having broken weapons, that's true, but how many of THOSE weapons give out insane stat boosts or have a disproportionate amount of might? The most I've seen a weapon have in terms of might in other games is in the 20s, and most weapons with might that high either tend to have downsides, are not relevant for very long, or both. To put things into perspective:

  • Aurgelmir in Fates halves your Strength until you attack again, and it's locked to Berserkers. In Conquest, you don't get it until endgame is around the corner too.
  • The Pursuer in the same game has massive defense drops and makes it easier for you to get double attacked; it's also locked to Snipers. Its availability isn't much better than Aurgelmir's in Conquest, even in Revelation.
  • The Dragonstone+ lowers your stats after attacking, and can't follow up.
  • The Hauteclere in Awakening requires you to do Double Duel OR go through a DLC map and get it from a randomized chest. In New Mystery, it comes with Minerva. Valflame is dropped by a lategame enemy.
  • Wishblade, Urvan and the Double Bow in Radiant Dawn all aren't available until endgame. The Vague Katti isn't much better off, requiring you to find Stefan.
  • The Renais twins' personal Sacred Twins aren't gotten until the last quarter of Sacred Stones. Garm isn't much better off. Gleipnir and Naglfar are heavy to the point of being unusable.
  • Durandal in Blazing Blade is mega-heavy to the point it's not worth using. Ditto for Gespenst. These, along with the Morph weapons, of which 5, Gespenst included, have 20 or more might, are only usable in endgame.
  • Apocalypse isn't as heavy as the other two S rank dark tomes, but it's still noticeably heavy. Durandal comes early, though you won't be able to use it until promotion.
  • Aura in Mystery is Linde only, and of the Three Regalia, only one of those comes early enough that you could use it for a good deal of the game.
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First i don't see how 20 speed weapons are op. The only speed point that matter is the one that makes you double everything, and you don't need a 20 speed weapon to achieve that. Everything past that is just avoid, the difference beetween +10 speed and +30 speed is minuscole compared to strenght or defence because the main point of speed is "meet x doubling benchmark" and any point above that is not very importabt. Like the well know 34 in RD, the difference between 33 and 34 is far grater than beetwen 34 and 40(ok, maybe 39 is good too to double Ashera whitout Nasir). Ok adept is a thing but i don't think that Balmung or Forseti can push it to absokute reliability, and is overkill on 95% of the game.

 

 

Second. They remade fucking Gaiden, a game that is far, far less popular than genealogy, instead of skipping it for Elibe or Jugdral itself. Sure  there are some challenges in adapting certain mechanics, but i don't see them just plain ignore the Snes era, expecially now that dark fantasy is more popular than ever (i can see "this game has the Red Wedding 2.0 as a selling point).

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I would say the big speed boost is a penalty unto itself. From what I've seen, Genealogy's AI has that units don't go attack what they can't hit. So all that evade? Your unit's Enemy Phase performance actually takes a hit since enemy mobs will essentially ignore it. Sure, the enemy's Hit needs to pretty much be zero to completely ignore the unit, but sometimes that's not hard to achieve.

Or course, whether or not that's truly a bad or detrimental thing is subjective...

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1 hour ago, Flere210 said:

First i don't see how 20 speed weapons are op. The only speed point that matter is the one that makes you double everything, and you don't need a 20 speed weapon to achieve that. Everything past that is just avoid, the difference beetween +10 speed and +30 speed is minuscole compared to strenght or defence because the main point of speed is "meet x doubling benchmark" and any point above that is not very importabt. Like the well know 34 in RD, the difference between 33 and 34 is far grater than beetwen 34 and 40(ok, maybe 39 is good too to double Ashera whitout Nasir). Ok adept is a thing but i don't think that Balmung or Forseti can push it to absokute reliability, and is overkill on 95% of the game.

First off, it's a 20 speed, 30 might weapon. If that alone doesn't scream "I'm OP as fuck" to you, what DOES??? Second, while it might be overkill for doubling purposes, it still renders you practically invincible (though that, admittedly, can backfire since enemies won't attack if they have a 0% chance to hit you).

1 hour ago, Flere210 said:

Second. They remade fucking Gaiden, a game that is far, far less popular than genealogy, instead of skipping it for Elibe or Jugdral itself. Sure  there are some challenges in adapting certain mechanics, but i don't see them just plain ignore the Snes era, expecially now that dark fantasy is more popular than ever (i can see "this game has the Red Wedding 2.0 as a selling point).

Remaking Gaiden was a proposition where the risk was far outweighed by the reward. This is NOT true of remaking Genealogy, needless to say. The problem with remaking Genealogy, as stated earlier, is who will they make it for? Should they make it for the people who like the original game and piss off the modern fanbase? Or should they make it in a way that the modern fanbase can enjoy, but risk alienating the people who like the original game? I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if the people over at IS knew this.

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5 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

I said "all but" invalidated. Foot units might be able to get some use here and there. And Balmung is a sword, aka one of the best weapon types in the game. The speed boost, I already mentioned, but still, most other holy weapons that boost speed tend to be heavy enough that most, if not all, of the speed boost is cancelled out. Besides that, it's still a 30 might beatstick. As for other games having broken weapons, that's true, but how many of THOSE weapons give out insane stat boosts or have a disproportionate amount of might? The most I've seen a weapon have in terms of might in other games is in the 20s, and most weapons with might that high either tend to have downsides, are not relevant for very long, or both. To put things into perspective:

  • Aurgelmir in Fates halves your Strength until you attack again, and it's locked to Berserkers. In Conquest, you don't get it until endgame is around the corner too.
  • The Pursuer in the same game has massive defense drops and makes it easier for you to get double attacked; it's also locked to Snipers. Its availability isn't much better than Aurgelmir's in Conquest, even in Revelation.
  • The Dragonstone+ lowers your stats after attacking, and can't follow up.
  • The Hauteclere in Awakening requires you to do Double Duel OR go through a DLC map and get it from a randomized chest. In New Mystery, it comes with Minerva. Valflame is dropped by a lategame enemy.
  • Wishblade, Urvan and the Double Bow in Radiant Dawn all aren't available until endgame. The Vague Katti isn't much better off, requiring you to find Stefan.
  • The Renais twins' personal Sacred Twins aren't gotten until the last quarter of Sacred Stones. Garm isn't much better off. Gleipnir and Naglfar are heavy to the point of being unusable.
  • Durandal in Blazing Blade is mega-heavy to the point it's not worth using. Ditto for Gespenst. These, along with the Morph weapons, of which 5, Gespenst included, have 20 or more might, are only usable in endgame.
  • Apocalypse isn't as heavy as the other two S rank dark tomes, but it's still noticeably heavy. Durandal comes early, though you won't be able to use it until promotion.
  • Aura in Mystery is Linde only, and of the Three Regalia, only one of those comes early enough that you could use it for a good deal of the game.

Well, you just need to know that those weapons are not comparable to the FE4 Holy Weapons, they are far more inferior, they were made by human/kings/heroes, not dragons AKA gods.

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I would think Gaiden was more risky to remade than Genealogy. Genealogy at least, with its pairing mechanics and 2nd gen, would be more familiar to the Awakening and Fates crowd (aka the bulk of the modern fanbase) than Gaiden was.

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4 hours ago, Acacia Sgt said:

I would think Gaiden was more risky to remade than Genealogy. Genealogy at least, with its pairing mechanics and 2nd gen, would be more familiar to the Awakening and Fates crowd (aka the bulk of the modern fanbase) than Gaiden was.

How? Because frankly, I don't see it. Genealogy has mechanics that mostly make it hard to play, what with the lack of trading, the individual money system, the inheritance system being complicated compared to Awakening and Fates, the love system being unintuitive, etc.

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Whether they do make it hard to play or not is subjective. Besides, even Shadows of Valentia isn't the exact same as Gaiden, so changing things isn't out of the question for QoL improvements.

Trading still exists, it's just done through the Pawn Shop. Individual money system is not that big step from the fact every character in FE's existence has individual inventories. Inheritance is only a problem when you don't know the children's classes, which is something that could only stump you on the very first playthrough and afterwards it's no problem. Love system is no different from supports, and the Augury is a good place as any to gauge.

As the phrase goes "It ain't rocket science". It's only slightly more complicated than what we usually do in FE anyway.

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8 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

First off, it's a 20 speed, 30 might weapon. If that alone doesn't scream "I'm OP as fuck" to you, what DOES??? Second, while it might be overkill for doubling purposes, it still renders you practically invincible (though that, admittedly, can backfire since enemies won't attack if they have a 0% chance to hit you).

I am not arguing that they are not overpowered, i am arguing to the argument that just Balmung need nerfing. Either all the holy weapon need it or no one. 20 speed seem amazing because speed is the best stat, but what exactly can't be done with a 10 speed balmung that can be done with a 20 speed balmung? Beating Ishtar(wich i am not even sure is possible with the current Balmung)?

Most enemies in Genealogy have bad hitrates anyway, and either won't kill shanan even if they hit every once in a while or manage a decent hitrate even againist Balmung. That weapon is busted in an overspecilized way, while other holy swords are equally busted but give more broad bonuses(and are used by horse units).

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20 minutes ago, Flere210 said:

Most enemies in Genealogy have bad hitrates anyway, and either won't kill shanan even if they hit every once in a while or manage a decent hitrate even againist Balmung. That weapon is busted in an overspecilized way, while other holy swords are equally busted but give more broad bonuses(and are used by horse units).

I wouldn't quite say this.

They would have to change up Shannan and Patty near Yied if they nerfed the +20 Spd of Balmung. Already, Shannan has a ~20% chance of being hit in a 1 RN system (which I think they would preserve), which when he has to survive so many chances of getting hit, he can only kill the Loptyrians at one per turn, is a bit risky. Lower his evade, and then either Yied becomes a lot risker, or it becomes much harder to get to Yied before, since Shannan is looking at being ORKO'ed. And if you don't send him to kill the boss, there is a chance he'll find his Fenrir and now you'll have another little threat to kill.

 

22 minutes ago, Flere210 said:

Beating Ishtar(wich i am not even sure is possible with the current Balmung)?

Chapter 8 Ishtar, her slightly weaker self, has 52 Atk. Shannan has 38 HP at base, with 4 base Res. Yeah, he is OHKO'ed even with the Barrier Ring, he needs HP procs or the Barrier Sword to live on top of that.

As for dodging, Ishtar has 178 hit in C8. Shannan has 86 Avoid at base sans Seliph's Leadership and 2-3 Charms, which can provide an extra 40-50 I think. This brings him to 136, for a 42 hit rate, not good. Either Barrier Sword or don't with Shannan vs. Ishtar (if you don't save abuse).

Final Ishtar is 60 Atk, which Shannan's HP growth and the Barrier Ring can again allow him to survive even without the Sword. Yet now she has gained 3 Skl more and more dangerously, her 1 Authority Star is now 5, bringing her 0 Accuracy boost to 40.

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8 hours ago, Flere210 said:

I am not arguing that they are not overpowered, i am arguing to the argument that just Balmung need nerfing. Either all the holy weapon need it or no one. 20 speed seem amazing because speed is the best stat, but what exactly can't be done with a 10 speed balmung that can be done with a 20 speed balmung? Beating Ishtar(wich i am not even sure is possible with the current Balmung)?

Most enemies in Genealogy have bad hitrates anyway, and either won't kill shanan even if they hit every once in a while or manage a decent hitrate even againist Balmung. That weapon is busted in an overspecilized way, while other holy swords are equally busted but give more broad bonuses(and are used by horse units).

I'm not saying that Balmung alone needs to be nerfed - I think all the holy weapons need nerfing; Balmung and Forseti especially stand out, though.

8 hours ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Trading still exists, it's just done through the Pawn Shop.

EXcept trading is an objectively superior mechanic, and doesn't force me to waste time dealing with a middleman (in this case, the pawn shop).

8 hours ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Individual money system is not that big step from the fact every character in FE's existence has individual inventories.

Except how restrictive it is means it clearly wasn't thought through AT ALL - why the fuck is transferring money so limited???

8 hours ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Inheritance is only a problem when you don't know the children's classes, which is something that could only stump you on the very first playthrough and afterwards it's no problem.

IF you play through it again, which I have problems seeing it as worthy of a replay because of how slow and clunky it is, as well as the gameplay being the absolute worst in the entire series.

8 hours ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Love system is no different from supports, and the Augury is a good place as any to gauge.

Problem: The augury is extremely vague, and only tells you about ONE other unit (who might not even be the unit you want them to marry).

8 hours ago, Acacia Sgt said:

As the phrase goes "It ain't rocket science". It's only slightly more complicated than what we usually do in FE anyway.

Maybe not, but I still don't trust IS to make FE4 into a game that's actually playable if they remake it, if the other remakes were any indication. As stated before, I think they're gonna leave the obvious problem children (pawn shop, the maps themselves, the money system, villages and bandits, etc.) intact if they remake it, which will seal the deal on me not finding it worthy of my money and time.

Edited by Shadow Mir
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Just from observation alone, it seems the idea behind the Pawn Shop was to restrict trading to only the Castles. However, they probably couldn't code it so a Trade command could only work while inside one. Hence why instead doing a castle facility. This is something that could quite be changed in a remake. Like, say, remove the Pawn Shop and simply turn Item Storage comunal, rather than individual.

It was the first time being done. You don't always nail it at first try. Had the mechanic been reused, it would've been refined. Fire Emblem has done this many times before. Trading used to be a "Give" command where you could only pass items, not do actual trading. Thus, needing to waste both units turn to do proper trade. Now? Item trading can be done outright, not just giving items. To give another example, Awakening introduced Pair-Up to the series. Then later you had people mostly commenting that Fates improved Pair-Up. Same principle can apply here. Remake or not, if individual coffers are used again, then the mechanic will be refined, as it was done for many other Fire Emblem mechanics. I can easily see the restrictions being lifted. So instead of just lovers exchanging money with each other and thieves only giving it to anyone, for money to also be something that can be traded freely.

Well, not everybody is you. Plenty of people would play it again, just like how there'd be people that wouldn't. So for those that will play it again, it's not a problem past the first playthrough.

This is once again experimentation. Genealogy was the first game that implemented a points system to supporting. Only Mystery of the Emblem had Bond supports before it, but Genealogy was the first to add the points gaining. Then later Binding Blade added support levels, and so on. A remake is going to modernize it. Just like how Shadows of Valentia added supports and support levels, which weren't in the original game, so can a Genealogy remake do the same to make the system easier to handle.

Well, that's something more on you. I've seen your posts. While you do bring up valid points at times, and others are just opinions, you sometimes go borderline irrational on the game; and at IS's hypothetical handling of it. I hope I'm just wrong; but you sometimes give the impression as if the game had personally done something to offend you. Which gets more mind boggling since you've stated you haven't even played it at all. Oh well, that's how it is.

Edited by Acacia Sgt
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