Will Genealogy of the Holy War be the next remake?

[Ottservia]

14 hours ago, Lewyn said:

Few things, you can save every turn so the length of chapters is a complete non issue.

Though Being able to save every turn presents it’s own problems cause y’know save scumming for growths and such. I know there is a system to discourage it but ultimately it’s inconsequential at least as far as I can tell. Regardless take my opinion of FE4 with a grain of salt as I have yet to personally beat(really have only played a little bit of the first chapter)

[Lewyn]

2 hours ago, Ottservia said:

Though Being able to save every turn presents it’s own problems cause y’know save scumming for growths and such. I know there is a system to discourage it but ultimately it’s inconsequential at least as far as I can tell. Regardless take my opinion of FE4 with a grain of salt as I have yet to personally beat(really have only played a little bit of the first chapter)

I think considering how Fire Emblem wants to be more casual, more saving, no permadeath, etc.  The feature was already like this on Fates casual setting wasn't it?  Plus in FE4 you can only save at the beginning of each turn, which makes it harder to abuse.  

[Tetragrammaton]

11 hours ago, henrymidfields said:

I'll have to say FE6 too, by virtue of Roy being in Smash and Elibe already being well-known due to a Western release in the form of FE7. FE4-5 might come after that.

The long-winded maps for 4 can be addressed with Canto-compatible checkpoints, and maybe extra events involving battles etc. As for trading and the Pawn Shop, we could just simply abolish those - considering they were only in 4 and are clearly fake difficulty material - and adopt the current item trade/storage we have now.

Not sure what to do with the movement balance - though I think or maybe close the movement value gap between mounted and otherwise. And maybe nerf the horse units so that both you and the enemy have to use foot units for the actual fights. As for the bandits, maybe make them start at a further point from the villages.

The basic story should not change, I think, but some extra backstory/conversation material may be in order.

If you replace the old pawnshop with new trading system, you will find the Odo twin spamming Balmunk.

The arena system, repair shop will be removed as well as it is bundled with the pawnshop.

Edited April 11, 2019 by Tetragrammaton

[Shadow Mir]

5 hours ago, Lewyn said:

It's called having an uninformed opinion, which is worthless.  

Binding blade is easier and more similar to modern games, but that also works against it.  Gaiden might be the least popular FE of all time, or up there with Thracia, and is certainly one of the most obscure titles.  In the west most people weren't even aware of it.  However they chose that game likely cause of its differences from the rest of the series.  They could advertise, oh bows and magic work differently, it has 2 protagonists with 2 different routes.  It is a different Fire Emblem experience and thus worth your time.  

With promoting Binding blade, if the remake came like 10 years earlier they could really bank on most of the FE fanbase having played FE7.  There are quite a few characters that appear in both games.  At this point most modern FE fans haven't played FE7 so that connection isn't there so much.  Roy has that cross market appeal, and that would basically be all they could sell the game on.  

Then... what about the others whose gripes with Genealogy coincide with mine...? Are theirs worthless too?

Is Genealogy much better off than either in terms of how many people in the west know it, though? I'm not sure it is. Heck, I'd say it's as out there, if not even more so than Gaiden was - Gaiden, for all its quirks, still played like your typical FE game in some ways. Genealogy doesn't.

That's still more than the fat lot of nothing Jugdral has going for it in terms of the western market. I mean, aside from us - and we certainly don't represent the majority of the western fanbase - who in the western fanbase would have heard of Genealogy? Die-hard FE fans? That's about the only answer I can think of. And again, they're only a minority.

Edited April 12, 2019 by Shadow Mir

[Acacia Sgt]

Well, at the very least, anyone who played Awakening would know. A sample group that would include much more than just "die-hard FE fans". More so when you consider the sales numbers. Adding that we're in the era of the Internet, looking up for more info is not out of the realm of possibilities either.

By the way, I wouldn't really put much thought on bringing up the opinions card. Sometimes, they're really not opinions. Though that's just me, perhaps.

[Lewyn]

32 minutes ago, Shadow Mir said:

Then... what about the others whose gripes with Genealogy coincide with mine...? Are theirs worthless too?

Is Genealogy much better off than either in terms of how many people in the west know it, though? I'm not sure it is. Heck, I'd say it's as out there, if not even more so than Gaiden was - Gaiden, for all its quirks, still played like your typical FE game in some ways. Genealogy doesn't.

That's still more than the fat lot of nothing Jugdral has going for it in terms of the western market. I mean, aside from us - and we certainly don't represent the majority of the western fanbase - who in the western fanbase would have heard of Genealogy? Die-hard FE fans? That's about the only answer I can think of. And again, they're only a minority.

Both are Japan only, but definitely much more people have heard and played FE4 than Gaiden before Echoes came out.  Other peoples gripes with Genealogy who coincide with yours?  So other youngins who never played FE4 have no clue what they are talking about, don't understand the most basic things of how anything works in the game, and want to copy paste the FE4 story into Fates game engine?  Lol yes completely worthless opinions that they should be ashamed of saying out loud much less posting.

Also I find the bold statement of 'polarizing' hilarious, since 99.99% of FE4 fans and people who have played through the game are Japanese.  What are we basing this on, a few people on this forum who dislike FE4?  That is ridiculous and stupid.  If they were going to remake FE4, they would be paying attention to the Japanese playerbase.  They would want to make sure that fanbase is satisfied and happy with their plans first and foremost.  

[Shadow Mir]

2 minutes ago, Lewyn said:

Lol yes completely worthless opinions that they should be ashamed of saying out loud much less posting.

This is why people consider the FE fanbase toxic - elitists like you who act holier-than-thou.

[Lewyn]

27 minutes ago, Shadow Mir said:

This is why people consider the FE fanbase toxic - elitists like you who act holier-than-thou.

Yes I am the one that is toxic.  Not the person who goes into every thread that so much as mentions FE4, even if it isn't about that game (like this thread which is what on what game will get remade next, not how FE4 should be remade) and spreads misinformation while relentlessly bashing a game that he's never played or experienced. 

Edited April 12, 2019 by Lewyn

[Shadow Mir]

3 minutes ago, Lewyn said:

Yes I am the one that is toxic.  Not the person who goes into every thread that so much as mentions FE4, even if it isn't about that game (like this thread which is what on what game will get remade next, not how FE4 should be remade) and spreads misinformation while relentlessly bashing a game that he's never played or experienced. 

Yes you are. You act like your word means more than everyone else's, and anyone who dares disagree with you is objectively wrong. You remind me of another elitist who favors the Jugdral saga, incidentally.

38 minutes ago, Lewyn said:

Also I find the bold statement of 'polarizing' hilarious, since 99.99% of FE4 fans and people who have played through the game are Japanese.  What are we basing this on, a few people on this forum who dislike FE4?  That is ridiculous and stupid.  If they were going to remake FE4, they would be paying attention to the Japanese playerbase.  They would want to make sure that fanbase is satisfied and happy with their plans first and foremost.  

Have you not bothered to read this thread? Because somebody else posted a statement that would most certainly give me the impression that Genealogy is polarizing. Also, if they focused on satisfying the Japanese fan base, that would mean risking alienating others. That means losing money - you know, what a developer would care about making.

[Flere210]

People that complain about the problems of FE4 are a vocal minority.

The majority of fe4 fans actually are japanese people that either don't talk much about the game on the internet or do so on japanese forums. Just because the game is polarizing for us does not mean that is polarizing for them. Most of us started with gba games or fateswakening and then came back, while there are bound to be many people that played Genealogy first for example.

[Lightcosmo]

About the save function, isn't that in Radiant Dawn as well? I don't see why it's game breaking here and not there, what's the difference? I think FE4's unique mechanics are what sets it apart from the others. I wouldn't want it to be Fates with simple edits either, that takes away from the whole experience, I think. 

10 minutes ago, Shadow Mir said:

Yes you are. You act like your word means more than everyone else's, and anyone who dares disagree with you is objectively wrong. You remind me of another elitist who favors the Jugdral saga, incidentally.

Have you not bothered to read this thread? Because somebody else posted a statement that would most certainly give me the impression that Genealogy is polarizing. Also, if they focused on satisfying the Japanese fan base, that would mean risking alienating others. That means losing money - you know, what a developer would care about making.

 But aren't you doing the same thing? what makes it okay for one but not the other? Personally, I don't think it's okay either way, but it certainly isn't right to call someone out when your just as guilty. Nobody said people don't like the game, there will always be people like that, but shouldn't you try to have a more positive outlook?

[Acacia Sgt]

7 minutes ago, lightcosmo said:

About the save function, isn't that in Radiant Dawn as well? I don't see why it's game breaking here and not there, what's the difference? I think FE4's unique mechanics are what sets it apart from the others. I wouldn't want it to be Fates with simple edits either, that takes away from the whole experience, I think. 

Well, in RD, you can save at any point during player phase, and the RNG resets every time you load it. Genealogy doesn't allow for either, if I recall correctly. So that one save at the beginning of the turn; and unless you use up the RN string by doing different actions, it's not as abusable.

11 minutes ago, Flere210 said:

People that complain about the problems of FE4 are a vocal minority.

The majority of fe4 fans actually are japanese people that either don't talk much about the game on the internet or do so on japanese forums. Just because the game is polarizing for us does not mean that is polarizing for them. Most of us started with gba games or fateswakening and then came back, while there are bound to be many people that played Genealogy first for example.

I wouldn't be surprised at this. After all, before the 3DS era, Genealogy was the second-best selling game of the franchise. It even kept that title when the series went international, when games could have the additional numbers of overseas sales.

[Ottservia]

4 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

I wouldn't be surprised at this. After all, before the 3DS era, Genealogy was the second-best selling game of the franchise. It even kept that title when the series went international, when games could have the additional numbers of overseas sales.

Cause kaga really was an ambitious man when he created that game. For as archaic as those games were designed(from what little I've played of them), you can really tell how much heart Kaga put into it. Each line of code, each sprite, each line of dialogue really does feel like that of a man who wants to really create something people will enjoy which is something I'll always respect him for 

[Lewyn]

22 minutes ago, Shadow Mir said:

Yes you are. You act like your word means more than everyone else's, and anyone who dares disagree with you is objectively wrong. You remind me of another elitist who favors the Jugdral saga, incidentally.

Have you not bothered to read this thread? Because somebody else posted a statement that would most certainly give me the impression that Genealogy is polarizing. Also, if they focused on satisfying the Japanese fan base, that would mean risking alienating others. That means losing money - you know, what a developer would care about making.

I act like my word means more than anyone who hasn't played the game, cause well it does.  I am happy to discuss with people who have played the game and thus know what they are talking about.  

If they alienate the 1 or 2 people on here who haven't played the game and are clueless, I think they will survive don't worry.

9 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

 

I wouldn't be surprised at this. After all, before the 3DS era, Genealogy was the second-best selling game of the franchise. It even kept that title when the series went international, when games could have the additional numbers of overseas sales.

Really?  I thought it was a steaming pile of garbage that has no redeeming qualities?  Maybe they gave away free meals at maid cafes for each purchase or something. 

 

[eclipse]

THAT'S IT.

Temporary thread lock while I figure out WTF just happened.

EDIT: FFS, done.  For the actual topic, I wouldn't mind if it was, provided that stuff like "skip enemy movement" was implemented.  And save points a la the DS games, depending on how the RNG works (preferably it'll be better than single RNG all the way through).

Edited April 12, 2019 by eclipse

[Armagon]

4 hours ago, Tetragrammaton said:

If you replace the old pawnshop with new trading system, you will find the Odo twin spamming Balmunk.

As if people don't already trade spam. Or maybe that's just me.

Either way, i'd gladly take trade spam over archaic Pawn Shop tbh.

[Acacia Sgt]

1 hour ago, Lewyn said:

Really?  I thought it was a steaming pile of garbage that has no redeeming qualities?  Maybe they gave away free meals at maid cafes for each purchase or something. 

Is that sarcasm, or...?

Though yeah, it was. A list of Japanese-only sales has been posted here before. I found one such list. Japan-only, format of: FirstWeek/Lifelong. Genealogy sold almost 500K copies in total. Nothing to scoff at, as the saying goes.

[Lewyn]

20 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Is that sarcasm, or...?

Though yeah, it was. A list of Japanese-only sales has been posted here before. I found one such list. Japan-only, format of: FirstWeek/Lifelong. Genealogy sold almost 500K copies in total. Nothing to scoff at, as the saying goes.

Yes it was sarcasm.  Half a million copies released a month before N64 was going to drop, so the end of the Super Famicom cycle and way past its prime.  Its performance is even more impressive when one considers all that.

Edited April 12, 2019 by Lewyn

[Slumber]

On 4/8/2019 at 1:30 PM, LJwalhout said:

5. it is about as mature as a Final Fantasy game, and last time I checked, people didn't call Final Fantasy Dark Fantasy (although that does sound really cool).

I was having fun reading through this thread, but as a big fan of both franchises, I have to comment on this. The only FF that even comes close is FFT, a side-game. A game I would definitely call a dark fantasy.

No other FF even begins to touch subjects like rape, child murdering cults, and mass murder of the heroes. No love interest is mind-wiped and ends up having children with a villain, who then kills the love interest's former lover. The one time the main party DOES end up dying, they literally beat the concept of death and come back to life. The worlds of the darker FF games are usually in a depression, but it isn't all out war, and the machinations of the villains don't usually concern the populace at large until endgame.

1-4 are very straight forward fantasy stories. 2 has party members dying, but it's pretty telegraphed by the second guest party member that anyone who isn't part of the core-4 is disposable. 4's opening is pretty brutal, and there's some brainwashing, but it doesn't lead to anything dark or tragic.

5 is straight up a comedy adventure, barring one plot development in the early/mid-game.

7 has some darker moments and a more grounded setting, but it doesn't really amount to anything darker than a typical FE. There's a brothel, and there's one scene where the owner of said brothel indicates he might do something with female party members against their will, but he ends up just tying them to a statue to kill them and uses them as leverage against the heroes.

8 is a similar deal, and the concept of child soldiers could lead to a dark story, and we get some bits here and there, like learning that using the thing that gives them their powers are giving them dementia, but our teen mercenaries are ultimately treated as in the right and they all live happily ever after.

9 is back to the 1-4 style of being straight-forward fantasy. Nothing too dark happens beyond what we learn about Black Mages. The ending is very sad, but only because of the perspective of the one narrating it, and otherwise everything works out for everyone.

10 has dark moments, but you spend the whole game exploring tropical islands. It's possibly the most melodramatic and melancholic FF, but it's a pretty narrow focus in that regard. Seymour murdering his father, and his mother becoming a vengeful fish monster, two things that happen in his backstory, is the peak of darkness here. You could argue that a religion of zombies feeding on souls of the dead that they cause via a giant flying whale controlled by their prophet to live forever is dark, but the game never goes into too much detail in this regard. Aside from Operation Mi'hen, the game just presents it as "Sin killed a bunch of people and made everyone sad".

12 is a more light-hearted take on the FFT formula. It only gets dark when you consider the greater story of Ivalice, and you remember that all these fun, silly races almost all die out in a few centuries and Ivalice becomes a living nightmare.

13 is straight up science fantasy, and doesn't really get dark. Despite its tone, nothing that bad really happens in vanilla XIII and almost everyone lives happily ever after.

FF6 is a bit of an exception, where it becomes an extinction-level event in by about the mid-game and things go downhill from there, but even the darker moments of that game don't get into the specifics of things like "Children are regularly rounded up and then either brainwashed or just flat out killed across the continent to fed power to a dark dragon" or "The plucky Genki Girl was tortured by her step-mother while protecting her daughter and dies of exhaustion with all hope drained from her".

The darkest FF gets is patricide, which is a pretty common running theme.

Edited April 12, 2019 by Slumber

[eclipse]

27 minutes ago, Slumber said:

FF6 is a bit of an exception, where it becomes an extinction-level event in by about the mid-game and things go downhill from there, but even the darker moments of that game don't get into the specifics of things like "Children are regularly rounded up and then either brainwashed or just flat out killed across the continent to fed power to a dark dragon".

There IS an attempted suicide, though. . .

And since you didn't get to it, here's the last one:

FF15 starts light-hearted with some darker moments thrown in for good measure.  As the game progresses, and the days get shorter, the story slowly goes south.  Since it involves some pretty significant plot details, I'll spoiler it.

Spoiler

Ignis loses his sight, Prompto finds out that he was meant to be a disposable pawn of the Empire, humanity is eventually pushed back to a single city with some outposts (along with them slowly being turned into monsters), the friends drift apart, and one of the last scenes features the bad guy, surrounded by various, familiar corpses suspended from the ceiling (the former King, Luna, some guy that's familiar to those watching Kingsglaive, etc.).  Oh, and Noctis loses his bride-to-be.

The character DLC gets even more specific.  Ignis damn near died, and got off by merely losing his sight.

Prompto was a clone of one of the Empire's scientists, who wanted to create the ultimate soldier.  Only an intervention of fate brought him to Lucis, and to Noctis' side.  The anime also shows that he was a fat kid with low self-esteem, until another chance meeting (this time with Pryna, a dog) and a letter gave him the motivation to lose weight.  I haven't finished Gladiolus' story, and haven't had a chance to play Ardyn's. . .but of them, Ardyn's looks amazingly dark. . .think delusions, illusions, and mayhem.

I'm not doing the story/synopsis justice, because there's a ton of nuance that just can't be shown through a short summary.

 

[Slumber]

14 minutes ago, eclipse said:

There IS an attempted suicide, though. . .

And since you didn't get to it, here's the last one:

FF15 starts light-hearted with some darker moments thrown in for good measure.  As the game progresses, and the days get shorter, the story slowly goes south.  Since it involves some pretty significant plot details, I'll spoiler it.

  Hide contents

Ignis loses his sight, Prompto finds out that he was meant to be a disposable pawn of the Empire, humanity is eventually pushed back to a single city with some outposts (along with them slowly being turned into monsters), the friends drift apart, and one of the last scenes features the bad guy, surrounded by various, familiar corpses suspended from the ceiling (the former King, Luna, some guy that's familiar to those watching Kingsglaive, etc.).  Oh, and Noctis loses his bride-to-be.

The character DLC gets even more specific.  Ignis damn near died, and got off by merely losing his sight.

Prompto was a clone of one of the Empire's scientists, who wanted to create the ultimate soldier.  Only an intervention of fate brought him to Lucis, and to Noctis' side.  The anime also shows that he was a fat kid with low self-esteem, until another chance meeting (this time with Pryna, a dog) and a letter gave him the motivation to lose weight.  I haven't finished Gladiolus' story, and haven't had a chance to play Ardyn's. . .but of them, Ardyn's looks amazingly dark. . .think delusions, illusions, and mayhem.

I'm not doing the story/synopsis justice, because there's a ton of nuance that just can't be shown through a short summary.

 

There's also successful suicide attempt in one of the brighter and lighter FEs. Well, sort of. Damn you Paralogues.

And I didn't get into FFXV because it's the only mainline FF I haven't played yet. I've been meaning to get around to it. Thanks for covering it since I couldn't.

Edited April 12, 2019 by Slumber

[henrymidfields]

11 hours ago, Tetragrammaton said:

If you replace the old pawnshop with new trading system, you will find the Odo twin spamming Balmunk.

The arena system, repair shop will be removed as well as it is bundled with the pawnshop.

Sorry, can you elaborate? I only know about the trading restrictions through hearsay - I haven't actually played FE4 yet.

Edited April 12, 2019 by henrymidfields

[Lightcosmo]

10 hours ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Well, in RD, you can save at any point during player phase, and the RNG resets every time you load it. Genealogy doesn't allow for either, if I recall correctly. So that one save at the beginning of the turn; and unless you use up the RN string by doing different actions, it's not as abusable.

Right, but people seem to think Genealogy has a broken save system, when Radiant Dawn's is just as broken, but it's only complained about here, not sure why.

 

8 hours ago, eclipse said:

FF15 starts light-hearted with some darker moments thrown in for good measure.  As the game progresses, and the days get shorter, the story slowly goes south.  Since it involves some pretty significant plot details, I'll spoiler it.

  Reveal hidden contents

Ignis loses his sight, Prompto finds out that he was meant to be a disposable pawn of the Empire, humanity is eventually pushed back to a single city with some outposts (along with them slowly being turned into monsters), the friends drift apart, and one of the last scenes features the bad guy, surrounded by various, familiar corpses suspended from the ceiling (the former King, Luna, some guy that's familiar to those watching Kingsglaive, etc.).  Oh, and Noctis loses his bride-to-be.

The character DLC gets even more specific.  Ignis damn near died, and got off by merely losing his sight.

Prompto was a clone of one of the Empire's scientists, who wanted to create the ultimate soldier.  Only an intervention of fate brought him to Lucis, and to Noctis' side.  The anime also shows that he was a fat kid with low self-esteem, until another chance meeting (this time with Pryna, a dog) and a letter gave him the motivation to lose weight.  I haven't finished Gladiolus' story, and haven't had a chance to play Ardyn's. . .but of them, Ardyn's looks amazingly dark. . .think delusions, illusions, and mayhem.

I'm not doing the story/synopsis justice, because there's a ton of nuance that just can't be shown through a short summary.

 

I think this sums it up pretty well. I really liked that story line, it's not as bad as people say.

[Interdimensional Observer]

4 hours ago, henrymidfields said:

Sorry, can you elaborate? I only know about the trading restrictions through hearsay - I haven't actually played FE4 yet.

Everyone in FE4 has their own personalized Gold wallet/account. There is no universal Gold treasury. Anything a character spends or sells comes directly out of their old account.

There are basically five ways to obtain Gold:

1. Sell stuff to the Pawn Shop
2. Visit villages (offer up to 5000 Gold each if not damaged at all)
3. Use the Thief Sword (obtained fairly early in Gen 1) or Thief Ring (not until late Chapter 8) or be a Thief. Any of these upon a successful hit will steal all of an enemy's Gold, which is always at least 1000. Once stolen, that enemy is tapped dry.
4. Have a Thief or the unit's personal Lover give them their Gold (such a transfer is always unfortunately all of that other person's Gold unless they hit the 50k account cap).
5. Visit the Arena and win battles. Losing costs no Gold, nor does the unit die- they'll always survive with 1 HP. A unit can fight only seven times per Chapter in the Arena, and the Prologue and C6 both lack Arenas. Each round gives an increasingly large amount of Gold, something like 1000, 1500, 2000, 3000, 4000, 5000, 6000, 7000; I forget exactly.

The main utility of your Thief in each Generation is to steal Gold and then pass it onto others who need it. There are no doors or chests for them to open in this game, only a lone bridge.

The Arena is the most available source of Gold for most units, and the better one fights, the more money one can get. Weaker units are relatively poorer, stronger units are richer.

Since you can't trade directly in FE4, to move an item from one character to another, you must use the Pawn Shop. One character sells the item, the other then buys it. Which means trading is restricted in accordance to how much Gold everyone has.

Restricting trading might owe something to the fact that rare and powerful weapons, like Brave Swords, are effectively infinite in uses FE4, due to being able to repair them for a cost in Gold (which is also supposed to curtail their overuse- doesn't work too well, does its job with Holy Weapons, not so much Silvers and Braves). The Pawn Shop approach puts something (not perfect) of a limit on the ability to have everyone just pass around the stronger weapons casually. 

The Pawn Shop also restricts the handing around of Bands and Ring, which exist instead of skill scrolls and permanent stat boosters. With normal trading, one would be able to give the Strength Ring for +5 Str and the Paragon Band to double EXP gain, freely to anyone who at that moment needed the extra 5-10 damage and more EXP. If they made trading as it is in other FEs in an FE4 remake, one would certainly have to change these items into one-time consumables for balance's sake.

[Acacia Sgt]

10 hours ago, Slumber said:

9 is back to the 1-4 style of being straight-forward fantasy. Nothing too dark happens beyond what we learn about Black Mages. The ending is very sad, but only because of the perspective of the one narrating it, and otherwise everything works out for everyone.

Nothing too dark? No way, nah uh, I'll never accept something like Atomos decimating Lindblum as... not too dark...

1 hour ago, lightcosmo said:

Right, but people seem to think Genealogy has a broken save system, when Radiant Dawn's is just as broken, but it's only complained about here, not sure why.

Not just as broken. Genealogy's sytem is much less so. People that think either simply don't have the full picture of how the two systems differ. Since it's clear they're different.