Will Genealogy of the Holy War be the next remake?

[Shadow Mir]

13 hours ago, lightcosmo said:

About the save function, isn't that in Radiant Dawn as well? I don't see why it's game breaking here and not there, what's the difference? I think FE4's unique mechanics are what sets it apart from the others. I wouldn't want it to be Fates with simple edits either, that takes away from the whole experience, I think. 

From what I've read it's not as abusable in Genealogy. But I'd say RD's battle save is easily more convenient, since it doesn't require you to not have moved a unit to use it, which is great for when I need to take a break (even if this convenience makes it more abusable). Anyway, I don't want a FE4 remake to be Fatesified, so to speak, but I do want it to make the necessary changes to actually be playable. As it is, it's a game that I'd literally have to force myself to play through, which I don't consider the mark of a good game (I much prefer if a game makes me want to come back for more).

13 hours ago, lightcosmo said:

 But aren't you doing the same thing? what makes it okay for one but not the other? Personally, I don't think it's okay either way, but it certainly isn't right to call someone out when your just as guilty. Nobody said people don't like the game, there will always be people like that, but shouldn't you try to have a more positive outlook?

How can I be positive when as far as this game is concerned, I have zero confidence whatsoever that a remake of this game will be designed in a manner that I'd actually consider worth playing? Especially since when IntSys tries something big, they wind up having glaring issues? Anyway, I'm generally not one to downplay something I see as a serious issue (like the maps, for example - they just make the game a massive exercise in tedium).

13 hours ago, Ottservia said:

Cause kaga really was an ambitious man when he created that game. For as archaic as those games were designed(from what little I've played of them), you can really tell how much heart Kaga put into it. Each line of code, each sprite, each line of dialogue really does feel like that of a man who wants to really create something people will enjoy which is something I'll always respect him for 

I'll give him an A for effort, but imho, he really dropped the ball with this game. Which brings me to my next point - IS tends to get too ambitious for their own good. Every time they try something really big (think of Genealogy's huge maps, the branching narrative of Fates or Radiant Dawn's multiple perspectives), the results tend to have glaring flaws. That being said... For how low my opinion of it is, there IS some good in Genealogy - as I see it, though, it's just hard to focus on the good when the bad and the ugly overshadow it to such an extent they practically hit me in the face (I've heard that the story - or at least that of the first generation, as the second generation's story doesn't garner as much praise - is among the best in the series, but that would be hard for me to focus on when the gameplay is so slow and clunky as to become a massive slog, which negatively impacts my ability to enjoy the game, as well as everything else [granted, if I'm emulating, there's a speed up button, but the fact that I need to regularly use the speed up button to make things move at an acceptable speed is a negative in my book]).

 

Anyways, one thing I'd really like to see implemented if this is remade is being able to skip enemy turns - that should help cut down on the tedium. There's no excuse for not having that, really.

11 hours ago, Slumber said:

FF6 is a bit of an exception, where it becomes an extinction-level event in by about the mid-game and things go downhill from there, but even the darker moments of that game don't get into the specifics of things like "Children are regularly rounded up and then either brainwashed or just flat out killed across the continent to fed power to a dark dragon" or "The plucky Genki Girl was tortured by her step-mother while protecting her daughter and dies of exhaustion with all hope drained from her".

Aside from the aforementioned attempted suicide, the state of affairs in Mobliz after the end of the world is rather bleak - all the adults are dead, and the eldest survivors are only teenagers. If that wasn't bad enough, a demon unleashed by the apocalypse attacks it twice - and one of those attacks is after it's revealed that one of the aforementioned teenagers is pregnant.

11 hours ago, Slumber said:

9 is back to the 1-4 style of being straight-forward fantasy. Nothing too dark happens beyond what we learn about Black Mages. The ending is very sad, but only because of the perspective of the one narrating it, and otherwise everything works out for everyone.

I'd echo Atomos's destruction of Lindblum. Oh, and there's Cleyra's destruction by Odin. And then there's Alexandria being destroyed, which shocks Garnet so badly, she occasionally fails her commands in battle for a good portion of the game after that.

Edited April 12, 2019 by Shadow Mir

[Lightcosmo]

1 hour ago, Shadow Mir said:

From what I've read it's not as abusable in Genealogy. But I'd say RD's battle save is easily more convenient, since it doesn't require you to not have moved a unit to use it, which is great for when I need to take a break (even if this convenience makes it more abusable). Anyway, I don't want a FE4 remake to be Fatesified, so to speak, but I do want it to make the necessary changes to actually be playable. As it is, it's a game that I'd literally have to force myself to play through, which I don't consider the mark of a good game (I much prefer if a game makes me want to come back for more).

How can I be positive when as far as this game is concerned, I have zero confidence whatsoever that a remake of this game will be designed in a manner that I'd actually consider worth playing? Especially since when IntSys tries something big, they wind up having glaring issues? Anyway, I'm generally not one to downplay something I see as a serious issue (like the maps, for example - they just make the game a massive exercise in tedium).

So RD's is more broken, so what's wrong with FE4's. And you should be positive about it, if you always tell yourself you wont like it of course you wont. In my opinion I think PoR has awful design. But I dont tell people "oh its unplayable!" That's for them to decide, they might think its great, what I dont like about the game, some one else sees very differently. but if plenty of people keep saying it's not, then of course it'll get looked down on. Yes, every game has negative points, but to focus only on that? Well, then you are taking away a good opportunity to enjoy something new, I think.

Edited April 12, 2019 by lightcosmo

[Rapaille]

14 hours ago, Slumber said:

I was having fun reading through this thread, but as a big fan of both franchises, I have to comment on this. The only FF that even comes close is FFT, a side-game. A game I would definitely call a dark fantasy.

No other FF even begins to touch subjects like rape, child murdering cults, and mass murder of the heroes. No love interest is mind-wiped and ends up having children with a villain, who then kills the love interest's former lover. The one time the main party DOES end up dying, they literally beat the concept of death and come back to life. The worlds of the darker FF games are usually in a depression, but it isn't all out war, and the machinations of the villains don't usually concern the populace at large until endgame.

 

It's probaby true that Fire Emblem 4 has darker themes then most Final Fantasy games and I probably should have said it in a different way (since my way of saying isn't good). I just think that Fire Emblem 4 feels more similar to something like (standard) Final Fantasy then to something like Game of Thrones which is often called Dark fantasy. This comes from the fact that Fe4 also has silly parts (Arden, Dew and Johan come to mind) that you would never see in dark fantasy but more in something like Final Fantasy. 

I also wouldn't say that rape is subject that is touched in FE4, more that it's heavily hinted at with Lene/Laylea and Larcei/Radney. 

But while all the other parts are common in the story and are indeed very mature, It also shares the spotlight with many silly elements. I think we just tend to overlook these parts because we are so used to see them in other Fire Emblem games so instead we remember the parts that where different and what made us like the story. A while back I said to one of my friends who never played Fire Emblem how dark and serious it is. But when I started playing it with them, they pointed me to the more silly parts of the story. I had already forgotten these parts because they weren't unique or touching like the more serious parts where. 

It probably still isn't a very good comparison and my wording was honestly very bad looking back at it. But since my knowledge of games and anime is so minimal and means that making comparisons isn't easy, I still think that Fire Emblem 4, despite having much more mature themes, feels more similar to  Final Fantasy then to Game of Thrones (which is what the argument was about if I remember correctly).

Also, the only Final Fantasy games I remember clearly are 4, 6 & 10 so maybe that has something to do with it.

[Flere210]

Dark fantasy works like GoT or Berserk have silly comedic moments too, such as Tyrion slapping Jeoffrey or everything involving Puck. I don't think the balance between serious and comedic of FE4 is much different than them. 

Even outright grimdark stories tend to have silly lighthearted moments.

[Slumber]

9 hours ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Nothing too dark? No way, nah uh, I'll never accept something like Atomos decimating Lindblum as... not too dark...

 

8 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

Aside from the aforementioned attempted suicide, the state of affairs in Mobliz after the end of the world is rather bleak - all the adults are dead, and the eldest survivors are only teenagers. If that wasn't bad enough, a demon unleashed by the apocalypse attacks it twice - and one of those attacks is after it's revealed that one of the aforementioned teenagers is pregnant.

I'd echo Atomos's destruction of Lindblum. Oh, and there's Cleyra's destruction by Odin. And then there's Alexandria being destroyed, which shocks Garnet so badly, she occasionally fails her commands in battle for a good portion of the game after that.

It's dark in concept, but it's a bunch of nameless mooks that get wiped out. Same deal when Alexanderia is destroyed. Same deal when Cleyra is destroyed. Same deal when Terra is destroyed. Linblum is arguably the darkest visually, since we see tons of Lindblum soldiers being straight up eaten by Atmos, but again, they're faceless mooks. Garnet is devastated and has a hard time summoning, but most of the cast doesn't really care once they find out all of the important characters like Cid and the Tantalus base in Lindblum are mostly fine.

As tragic as it would realistically be, I don't think I can count kingdoms getting wiped out as especially dark, and it happens all the time in even more light-hearted fantasy stories. How many villages and kingdoms get razed in your average Fire Emblem game? It happens all the time. Final Fantasy 4 starts with Cecil unwittingly killing a whole village full of summoners, including a main character's remaining family. Sin goes around Spira, wiping villages off the face of the planet. It's a common trope, and it's generally not painted as super dark.

FF6's events are one of the bigger exceptions in the franchise beyond FFT. A lot of it is removed from the main party, but the effects of Kefka's rise are so dramatic that it's pretty akin to the mass child hunts happening in FE4.

4 hours ago, LJwalhout said:

I also wouldn't say that rape is subject that is touched in FE4, more that it's heavily hinted at with Lene/Laylea and Larcei/Radney.

I'd say it's more than hinted at with Lene, and Azel is a child of rape... which then caused Cigyun to leave Victor for Kurth, and he promptly killed himself. Arguably the events that most directly set up the events of FE4 can be attributed to Victor being a womanizing rapist.

Edited April 13, 2019 by Slumber

[Lewyn]

7 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

From what I've read it's not as abusable in Genealogy. But I'd say RD's battle save is easily more convenient, since it doesn't require you to not have moved a unit to use it, which is great for when I need to take a break (even if this convenience makes it more abusable). Anyway, I don't want a FE4 remake to be Fatesified, so to speak, but I do want it to make the necessary changes to actually be playable. As it is, it's a game that I'd literally have to force myself to play through, which I don't consider the mark of a good game (I much prefer if a game makes me want to come back for more).

 

I am going to take this part to show how biased and stupid your statements are.  So first you don't even know that you can save every turn, and complain about being forced to play several hours per chapter before being able to save.  So you find out that is a complete lie and false assumption you made (just like many).  Then you go on about save system being abusable in FE4.  Then someone brings up it is more abusable in RD, so then you say yes it is, but my god you have to play through an entire turn once you start in FE4 so RD is better and so much more convenient.  So I guess all those other Fire Emblem games where you can only save after completing a chapter are complete garbage then right?  

The necessary changes to make it playable, says one who has never played the game.  I'm sorry it doesn't make you want to come back for more, there are other games to play. 

A lot of people think Fates is complete trash.  So shall we make changes to make it playable for those people?  That sounds like a brilliant idea.   

Edited April 12, 2019 by Lewyn

[Shadow Mir]

7 hours ago, lightcosmo said:

So RD's is more broken, so what's wrong with FE4's. And you should be positive about it, if you always tell yourself you wont like it of course you wont. In my opinion I think PoR has awful design. But I dont tell people "oh its unplayable!" That's for them to decide, they might think its great, what I dont like about the game, some one else sees very differently. but if plenty of people keep saying it's not, then of course it'll get looked down on. Yes, every game has negative points, but to focus only on that? Well, then you are taking away a good opportunity to enjoy something new, I think.

I don't think it's broken - the main gripe (and the only one I have about it, in fact) is about how restrictive and inconvenient the requirement that you not have moved a unit in order to use the battle save feature is, since it's more likely that I'd find myself needing to step away from the game for some reason around the middle of a turn. 

1 hour ago, Lewyn said:

I am going to take this part to show how biased and stupid your statements are.  So first you don't even know that you can save every turn, and complain about being forced to play several hours per chapter before being able to save.  So you find out that is a complete lie and false assumption you made (just like many).  Then you go on about save system being abusable in FE4.  Then someone brings up it is more abusable in RD, so then you say yes it is, but my god you have to play through an entire turn once you start in FE4 so RD is better and so much more convenient.  So I guess all those other Fire Emblem games where you can only save after completing a chapter are complete garbage then right?  

The necessary changes to make it playable, says one who has never played the game.  I'm sorry it doesn't make you want to come back for more, there are other games to play. 

A lot of people think Fates is complete trash.  So shall we make changes to make it playable for those people?  That sounds like a brilliant idea.   

Apples and oranges, dude. Most of the gripes I've seen about Fates are about the story, not the gameplay; I don't consider a bad story comparable to bad gameplay, as the latter is much more likely to drive me away from a game.

Edited April 13, 2019 by Shadow Mir

[Lewyn]

32 minutes ago, Shadow Mir said:

I don't think it's broken - the main gripe (and the only one I have about it, in fact) is about how restrictive and inconvenient the requirement that you not have moved a unit in order to use the battle save feature is, since it's more likely that I'd find myself needing to step away from the game for some reason around the middle of a turn. 

Apples and oranges, dude. Most of the gripes I've seen about Fates are about the story, not the gameplay; I don't consider a bad story comparable to bad gameplay, as the latter is much more likely to drive me away from a game.

Lol okay you completely miss the point which isn't surprising.  There are people who think Fates gameplay is garbage too.  However that isn't the point.  The point is weather to remake a game to satisfy people who hated the original or remake a game to satisfy people who are fans of the original.  Who do you think is the intended consumer when they remake a game?  The answer is obvious hopefully even for you.  

Of course you didn't reply to the first part of the statement, not surprising considering you can't really dispute any of it.

Edited April 13, 2019 by Lewyn

[The DanMan]

FE6 has major recognizablity in the West because Roy's in Smash.

FE7 was localized and is a prequel to FE6.

A higher up at IS has said they'd like to remake FE6 next.

FE6 has a far more standard gameplay structure.

FE4 has basically nothing going for it, realistically speaking.

[Shadow Mir]

28 minutes ago, Lewyn said:

Lol okay you completely miss the point which isn't surprising.  There are people who think Fates gameplay is garbage too.  However that isn't the point.  The point is weather to remake a game to satisfy people who hated the original or remake a game to satisfy people who are fans of the original.  Who do you think is the intended consumer when they remake a game?  The answer is obvious hopefully even for you.  

Of course you didn't reply to the first part of the statement, not surprising considering you can't really dispute any of it.

The problem is, I haven't seen many people complain about Fates' gameplay at all, which is why I don't understand why you're bringing it up. I don't think I can even remember anybody complaining about its gameplay; the prevailing sentiment was that its gameplay was one of the best in the series. And I don't see the point of trying to appeal to the people who most likely  would've bought the game anyway (in this case, fans of the original game, which are almost entirely Japanese), which is what you say should be a priority, UNLESS it happens that they won't localize it (which, since New Mystery never got localized, I'll consider as a possibility).

[Von Ithipathachai]

3 minutes ago, Shadow Mir said:

The problem is, I haven't seen many people complain about Fates' gameplay at all, which is why I don't understand why you're bringing it up. I don't think I can even remember anybody complaining about its gameplay; the prevailing sentiment was that its gameplay was one of the best in the series.

Believe us, it's there.  How you haven't come across any complaints on here yet is a miracle.  Of the three versions of Fates, only Conquest is consistently regarded as having good gameplay.  My memory is fuzzy, but I believe a few of the gameplay problems claimed have to do with map design, annoying secondary effects on weapons in place of durability/weapon weight, and Dagger debuffs being OP.  And let's not forget skinship.  Granted, it's good that it got removed for the US, but it shouldn't have been there to begin with.

The people that do complain about Fates's gameplay look to be mainly comprised of the hardcore veteran crowd that you frequently butt heads with.

[Lightcosmo]

1 hour ago, Shadow Mir said:

I don't think it's broken - the main gripe (and the only one I have about it, in fact) is about how restrictive and inconvenient the requirement that you not have moved a unit in order to use the battle save feature is, since it's more likely that I'd find myself needing to step away from the game for some reason around the middle of a turn. 

Isn't that to restrict it so it isn't to flexible? And I suppose that's fair, but isn't that evolution? Would RD's be the way it is without FE4? As said before, it could be like the GBA FE's where you have to completely restart, that's not better at all. And much more inconvenient.

 

4 minutes ago, Von Ithipathachai said:

Believe us, it's there.  How you haven't come across any complaints on here yet is a miracle.  Of the three versions of Fates, only Conquest is consistently regarded as having good gameplay.  My memory is fuzzy, but I believe a few of the gameplay problems claimed have to do with map design, annoying secondary effects on weapons in place of durability/weapon weight, and Dagger debuffs being OP.  And let's not forget skinship.  Granted, it's good that it got removed for the US, but it shouldn't have been there to begin with.

The people that do complain about Fates's gameplay look to be mainly comprised of the hardcore veteran crowd that you frequently butt heads with.

I agree here. I personally am not a huge fan of Fates, not to say it's gameplay is awful, it's just not for me. The same could be said about FE4, it's just not for everyone, that doesn't make it bad. I appreciate the unique path it took, to be honest, and complaining about game breaking things is silly, considering all games have something like that.

Edited April 13, 2019 by lightcosmo

[Lewyn]

45 minutes ago, Shadow Mir said:

The problem is, I haven't seen many people complain about Fates' gameplay at all, which is why I don't understand why you're bringing it up. I don't think I can even remember anybody complaining about its gameplay; the prevailing sentiment was that its gameplay was one of the best in the series. And I don't see the point of trying to appeal to the people who most likely  would've bought the game anyway (in this case, fans of the original game, which are almost entirely Japanese), which is what you say should be a priority, UNLESS it happens that they won't localize it (which, since New Mystery never got localized, I'll consider as a possibility).

Then you are blind, Fates is the most polarizing game in the series and gets the most hate here.  That includes a lot of criticism on the gameplay as well.  

Also you don't see the point?  Really?  If you fundamentally completely change a game in a remake then it is will turn off most if not all of the original game fans.  

 

[Acacia Sgt]

I've certainly seen gameplay criticism towards Fates, with most of the positive stuff going to Conquest or general things like pair-up.

1 hour ago, The DanMan said:

FE6 has major recognizablity in the West because Roy's in Smash.

FE7 was localized and is a prequel to FE6.

A higher up at IS has said they'd like to remake FE6 next.

FE6 has a far more standard gameplay structure.

FE4 has basically nothing going for it, realistically speaking.

This makes me think. What did Gaiden had when it was chosen to be the next remake after Marth's games? Being the, well, Gaiden story to them? I would still consider Binding Blade not having a guarantee to be the next remake, as even with the above, they might chose another game to remake.

[Tetragrammaton]

4 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

I've certainly seen gameplay criticism towards Fates, with most of the positive stuff going to Conquest or general things like pair-up.

This makes me think. What did Gaiden had when it was chosen to be the next remake after Marth's games? Being the, well, Gaiden story to them? I would still consider Binding Blade not having a guarantee to be the next remake, as even with the above, they might chose another game to remake.

Gaiden was remade because it is the No. 2 in the series after No. 1.

It is that simple, dont overthink too much.

[Acacia Sgt]

3 minutes ago, Tetragrammaton said:

Gaiden was remade because it is the No. 2 in the series after No. 1.

It is that simple, dont overthink too much.

They still skipped it first, though.

By that logic, then Genealogy is definitely next since it's the No. 4 in the series. Sometimes, it's not simple.

[Tetragrammaton]

3 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

They still skipped it first, though.

By that logic, then Genealogy is definitely next since it's the No. 4 in the series. Sometimes, it's not simple.

It is only complicated until No. 4, before that and after that, things are more simple.

[Armagon]

43 minutes ago, Lewyn said:

Then you are blind, Fates is the most polarizing game in the series and gets the most hate here.  That includes a lot of criticism on the gameplay as well.

Key words: here. I mean, yes, r/fireemblem exists (and GameFaqs but we don't speak of it) but i wouldn't call Fates as the most polarizing game. I still see plenty of complaints about it, sure, but at this point, Fates being bad is kinda a meme. And also, i'm pretty sure Fates is more popular as a whole whereas FE4 is only really popular among the hardcore fanbase. So nah, i think it's wrong to call Fates the most polarizing game. Did it widen the rift that Awakening caused? Sure. But is it polarizing? Nah. 

[Shadow Mir]

1 hour ago, Lewyn said:

Then you are blind, Fates is the most polarizing game in the series and gets the most hate here.  That includes a lot of criticism on the gameplay as well.  

Also you don't see the point?  Really?  If you fundamentally completely change a game in a remake then it is will turn off most if not all of the original game fans.  

 

Must you resort to petty insults? That's not a way to look credible. Also, I think it's inaccurate to call Fates the most polarizing game, even if it did widen the rift Awakening caused. On the other hand, I see most discussions regarding FE4 have almost no middle ground. And in addition, we're only a minority of the fan base.

Bold: I'm not convinced that's entirely true...

Edited April 13, 2019 by Shadow Mir

[Lewyn]

25 minutes ago, Armagon said:

Key words: here. I mean, yes, r/fireemblem exists (and GameFaqs but we don't speak of it) but i wouldn't call Fates as the most polarizing game. I still see plenty of complaints about it, sure, but at this point, Fates being bad is kinda a meme. And also, i'm pretty sure Fates is more popular as a whole whereas FE4 is only really popular among the hardcore fanbase. So nah, i think it's wrong to call Fates the most polarizing game. Did it widen the rift that Awakening caused? Sure. But is it polarizing? Nah. 

Fates is very polarizing on gamefaqs and reddit as well.  Of course it is popular it came after Awakening which was a well promoted global entry that was released at the perfect time.  FE4 is Japan only and was released when the N64 was arriving and playstation had already been here awhile.  I used 'SF' cause that is what laughably Shadow Mir is basing how polarizing FE4 is, when 99.99% of the people who have played the game are Japanese and not a part of this forum.  See how stupid such logic is?  

15 minutes ago, Shadow Mir said:

Must you resort to petty insults? That's not a way to look credible. Also, I think it's inaccurate to call Fates the most polarizing game, even if it did widen the rift Awakening caused.

Yes it is far more credible to bash a game one has never played when you repeatedly show you don't even understand many of the basics of how it functions.  

 Oh and I've actually played Fates so I can give my opinion on it.  I can call Corrin the biggest mistake the series has ever made, and even if people don't agree with my opinion since I've actually played the game it is an informed one.

 

 

Edited April 13, 2019 by Lewyn

[Armagon]

23 minutes ago, Lewyn said:

Fates is very polarizing on gamefaqs and reddit as well.

Yes, i mentioned that, though i don't think Gamefaqs should be counted. Gamefaqs, along with Tumblr, is bottom of the barrel for most fanbases. Gamefaqs is only good for actual gaming questions. As a discussion forum, it's terrible. Tumblr has no redeeming qualities. But this isn't relevant to the conversation at hand.

23 minutes ago, Lewyn said:

I used 'SF' cause that is what laughably Shadow Mir is basing how polarizing FE4 is, when 99.99% of the people who have played the game are Japanese and not a part of this forum.  See how stupid such logic is?  

Eh, it's just a matter of perspective. Some games are better received in different regions. FE4 isn't really polarizing in Japan but it is in the West. Likewise, you could argue Tellius is polarizing in Japan because both entries sold like shit over there whereas in the West, it did better. That said, sales aren't indicative of quality. There's a correlation but it's not a definitive one. Example: Paper Mario: Sticker Star sold amazingly well but i think we all know just how criticized that game is.

Serenes Forest is primarily used by Western users and if we're using that as context, then yeah, FE4 is polarizing. Like i said before though, it's all a matter of perspective. Shadow Mir can be right or wrong depending on how you look at it.

Gonna have to call you out on the insults tho. Shadow Mir isn't the one resorting to insults so by default, he's providing a better argument than you.

Edit: Well i say FE4 isn't polarizing in Japan but now that i've said that "sales aren't indicative of quality", i'm actually curious as to what the critical, not commercial, reception of FE4 in Japan was. This should be interesting to research though i doubt i'd come up with anything.

Edited April 13, 2019 by Armagon

[Lewyn]

11 minutes ago, Armagon said:

Yes, i mentioned that, though i don't think Gamefaqs should be counted. Gamefaqs, along with Tumblr, is bottom of the barrel for most fanbases. Gamefaqs is only good for actual gaming questions. As a discussion forum, it's terrible. Tumblr has no redeeming qualities. But this isn't relevant to the conversation at hand.

Eh, it's just a matter of perspective. Some games are better received in different regions. FE4 isn't really polarizing in Japan but it is in the West. Likewise, you could argue Tellius is polarizing in Japan because both entries sold like shit over there whereas in the West, it did better. That said, sales aren't indicative of quality. There's a correlation but it's not a definitive one. Example: Paper Mario: Sticker Star sold amazingly well but i think we all know just how criticized that game is.

Serenes Forest is primarily used by Western users and if we're using that as context, then yeah, FE4 is polarizing. Like i said before though, it's all a matter of perspective. Shadow Mir can be right or wrong depending on how you look at it.

Gonna have to call you out on the insults tho. Shadow Mir isn't the one resorting to insults so by default, he's providing a better argument than you.

I'm not using insults just speaking the truth.  Uninformed opinions are trash it doesn't matter what it is about.  I've never played Paper Mario Sticker Star.  So can I call it absolute garbage even though I have no clue how the basics work and just based on some stuff I looked up or what a few people on a forum said?  If you think that is a good argument, I don't know what to say.

Shadow Mir used this site to make the claim about how polarizing FE4 is and thus using that for his remake ideas.  Like wow 2 people on this site don't like FE4, so if there aren't major changes (on this game he has no clue about and has never played) the world will burn.  Calling that stupid is not an insult it is a fact. 

Edited April 13, 2019 by Lewyn

[Armagon]

15 minutes ago, Lewyn said:

So can I call it absolute garbage even though I have no clue how the basics work and just based on some stuff I looked up or what a few people on a forum said?

Not knowing how the basics work is one thing but if you look things up and see discussion, then yeah, you can make an opinion. Like, i don't need to actually play Kingdom Hearts 3 to know that the gameplay is mindless button mashing, for example.

15 minutes ago, Lewyn said:

Shadow Mir used this site to make the claim about how polarizing FE4 is and thus using that for his remake ideas.  Like wow 2 people on this site don't like FE4, so if there aren't major changes (on this game he has no clue about and has never played) the world will burn.

Like i said before, if SF is the context, then yeah, he's right about FE4 being polarizing. There's quite a number of people on here who don't like FE4, myself included. We just aren't as vocal as he is (though i was for a time).

Shadow Mir has gotten some things wrong, but as someone who has actually beaten FE4, i do agree with most of his criticisms (and he's been here way longer than i have so i doubt he's just copying what i'm saying), so regardless of whether or not he's played the game, he knows enough about it to form his own opinions. Maybe not everything, but enough.

Even if i did like FE4 though, i'd agree it is in need of major changes. Game's aged like shit and with IS appealing to the more casual side of the fanbase, i guarantee most casuals would not enjoy FE4 the way it is right now.

Edited April 13, 2019 by Armagon

[Lewyn]

34 minutes ago, Armagon said:

Not knowing how the basics work is one thing but if you look things up and see discussion, then yeah, you can make an opinion. Like, i don't need to actually play Kingdom Hearts 3 to know that the gameplay is mindless button mashing, for example.

Like i said before, if SF is the context, then yeah, he's right about FE4 being polarizing. There's quite a number of people on here who don't like FE4, myself included. We just aren't as vocal as he is (though i was for a time).

Shadow Mir has gotten some things wrong, but as someone who has actually beaten FE4, i do agree with most of his criticisms (and he's been here way longer than i have so i doubt he's just copying what i'm saying), so regardless of whether or not he's played the game, he knows enough about it to form his own opinions. Maybe not everything, but enough.

Even if i did like FE4 though, i'd agree it is in need of major changes. Game's aged like shit and with IS appealing to the more casual side of the fanbase, i guarantee most casuals would not enjoy FE4 the way it is right now.

Making such a guarantee on what people who don't like FE4 on SF?  Most casuals?  You are just as clueless as he is.  Then can we also say Fates aged like shit or let's just say it was shit to begin with and many fans dislike it cause it gets so much hate here?  That is a pretty dumb assumption but if you admire Shadow Mir's opinion that is not surprising.  

Shadow Mir doesn't know how the basics work, he has been proven wrong countless times. 

Edited April 13, 2019 by Lewyn

[Shadow Mir]

9 minutes ago, Lewyn said:

Making such a guarantee on what people who don't like FE4 on SF?  Most casuals?  You are just as clueless as he is.  Then can we also say Fates aged like shit or let's just say it was shit to begin with and many fans dislike it cause it gets so much hate here?  That is a pretty dumb assumption but if you admire Shadow Mir's opinion that is not surprising.  

Shadow Mir doesn't know how the basics work, he has been proven wrong countless times. 

There you go again, resorting to ad hominem attacks. You are not helping your case with that.