New Heroes Arrive : Out of Gallia (April 10~)

[Roflolxp54]

Spoiler

RIP Haar. Tries to be a mix of Cherche and Beruka but ultimately fails to do either of those roles better than either of them. He also doesn't really offer much in fodder, either, as Wave skills aren't exactly consistent and their being a huge fad was long in the past.

Pretty much dead-set on hoping for Lethe and merges for my MCorrin on my 5 freebies.

Caineghis is amazing but his investment cost is on the high-end to achieve his full potential; needs multiple Ranulf/Velouria for Ward Beasts and I'd have to actually build Naesala and Reyson to make the most out of him.

Mordecai doesn't really have anything going for him as Exp. skills are meh and I don't really use Link skills.

Ranulf only has a whalebait assist which is fine if no reds spawned but greens did.

 

[Rinco]

43 minutes ago, Diovani Bressan said:

I am planning to summon on the colorless orbs in the same circle as well. Since we have 1 free summon and 4 tickets, I will have 5 circles to try to get him. After this, I will not spend any more orbs.

Which color are you considering for when there's no colorless orbs? 

I'm thinking of going with red first and green second. 

[XRay]

6 hours ago, NekoKnight said:

You missed the point of my post. I already have a Michalis so I have no reason to invest a bunch of resources into Haar so he may be marginally better at a specific build.

That is like saying I have WOF!Hinoka, so there is no need for me to build any other Firesweep or Brave archer. That is basically what all offensive archers run. Offensive mages similarly run nothing but Blade tomes and Desperation, unless they have a good exclusive tome. For slow Def tanks, they are running nothing but Moonbow/Bonfire/Ignis and Quick Riposte and most likely Slaying Axe unless they have a good personal axe or you can afford Hack-o'-Lantern or Handbell/Sack o' Gifts. This is not just some random niche build you only need one of, this is the bread and butter build for every axe Def tank.

Maybe if you are a Player Phase player and you abhor Enemy Phase combat like me, then you might be able to get away with only building 1 or 2, but even I built up like 5 axe Def tanks (Sheena, Hector,  LA!Hector, TLB!Dorcas, Dorcas), and if you include Triangle Adept counters, then I have like over a dozen.

6 hours ago, NekoKnight said:

I prefer the Special refine for Hauteclere anyway.

If we are comparing Michalis with Hauteclere [special] to Haar with Slaying Axe [Def], then Haar is just outright superior.

Michalis Enemy Phase
91:60:32
Haar Enemy Phase (I am using Michalis since the calculator does not have Haar yet):
97:51:35
6 more kills and 9 less deaths is kind of significant.

Challenger List: Against Hard List melee foes only. Both sides +10 with 6/6/6/6 bonus buffs and 0/0/6/6 combat buffs to simulate Close Def. Michalis with Hauteclere [Def] has taken 1 damage, 0/-1/0/-1 debuff, and an additional 1/0/1/0 combat buff to simulate Haar.

Spoiler

CHALLENGER LIST  
Michalis (5*+10)  
Weapon: Hauteclere  
Special: Bonfire  
A: Sturdy Stance 2  
B: Quick Riposte 3  
Upgrade Path: 5  
  
Michalis (5*+10)  
Weapon: Hauteclere  
Special: Bonfire  
A: Sturdy Stance 2  
B: Quick Riposte 3  
S: HP 3  
Upgrade Path: 3  

 

21 minutes ago, Alkaid said:

If you want a defensive GHB axe flier, Michalis is better

Haar is definitely better stat wise. If comparing Haar with Slaying Axe [Def] to Michalis with Hauteclere [special], then Haar is outright superior stat wise and performance wise.

[Diovani Bressan]

32 minutes ago, Rinco said:

Which color are you considering for when there's no colorless orbs? 

I'm thinking of going with red first and green second. 

Yeah, Red will be my first option, but I am planning to go for Blue as my second option.

[Anacybele]

2 hours ago, GrandeRampel said:

I would like to add that there is a little problem even with your original post.

Even when giving your opinion, you are supposed to explain the reasoning behind it. It's what you did when arguing why certain legendary heroes are not the right element for their character, such as Ryoma.

Here you did none of that, you simply stated he should have been blue.

You could have explained why, by comparing him with Nailah, Naesala and Panne, who are also blue and say he has some elements in common with them, therefore making him also blue.

Or you could have compared him to Kaden and Reyson, who are green to explain why he shouldn't be like them.

You could have also stated that he should be blue because of the color of his fur, and it would have been an acceptable reason. But you gave us no reason at all.

I suppose I could have explained, yeah. Sorry about that.

[Sasori]

Haar turned out to be a big dissapointment. Boring stats and an even more boring base skill set.

I though Haar would be a perfect candidate for a vanguard axe. All of his skills have to do with defense so why not give him a shiny new axe to complete the package. Would it make Haar better? Perhaps not, but it would be far more interesting then a boring brave axe. Its not like they'll introduce new non prf axe heroes on normal banners so they might as well have given the weapon this way.

That aside the rest of the heroes look pretty cool. I see people think Ranulf got pretty shafted, but I like his stat spread. Him focusing more on defense while still being pretty speedy does a good job of making him different from Lethe.  Caineghis is the coolest, but I'm not the biggest fan of generals so I think i'll go for one of the cats first. Won't say no to the lion king though.

[Tree]

2 minutes ago, Sasori said:

Haar turned out to be a big dissapointment. Boring stats and an even more boring base skill set.

I though Haar would be a perfect candidate for a vanguard axe. All of his skills have to do with defense so why not give him a shiny new axe to complete the package. Would it make Haar better? Perhaps not, but it would be far more interesting then a boring brave axe. Its not like they'll introduce new non prf axe heroes on normal banners so they might as well have given the weapon this way.

That would have given him something interesting to use that aligns with his stats. They gave him slightly more defense than most axe fliers yet paired that with a brave axe without the attack to really make good use of it. As a launch unit, his attack might have been OK for a brave axe, but he's not a good choice for it now. Giving him Gerome's Poleaxe or even just a Hammer would have been more useful. As it is, there is an extra 20,000 feather cost just to give him an average weapon.

[Alkaid]

1 hour ago, XRay said:

Haar is definitely better stat wise. If comparing Haar with Slaying Axe [Def] to Michalis with Hauteclere [special], then Haar is outright superior stat wise and performance wise.

Eh, Michalis still has his higher nuke power with his specials so give him an edge for it. Their performance is very close in raw stats, but Haar, like Gerome, doesn't bring anything unique to the table. As I said, he's not bad, just nothing exciting and takes more feathers to make use of than even Gerome. Beruka is the best and cutest of all the defensive axes anyway

Edited April 9, 2019 by Alkaid

[Ice Dragon]

31 minutes ago, Tree said:

As it is, there is an extra 20,000 feather cost just to give him an average weapon.

Slaying weapons are hardly "average". They are by far the best inheritable weapons in the game for melee physical weapon types with Wo Dao weapons as their only real competition (and only for units unable to use Wrath or Special Spiral) and are fully capable of competing with many exclusive weapons.

 

44 minutes ago, Sasori said:

I though Haar would be a perfect candidate for a vanguard axe.

I'm sick and tired of weapons and skills that should be in the standard summoning pool being Grail-exclusive (I'm looking at you, Gerome, Robin, and Berkut).

 

3 minutes ago, Alkaid said:

Eh, Michalis still has his higher nuke power with his specials so give him an edge for it. Their performance is very close in raw stats, but Haar, like Gerome, doesn't bring anything unique to the table. As I said, he's not bad, just nothing exciting and takes more feathers to make use of than even Gerome. Beruka is the best and cutest of all the defensive axes anyway

@XRay literally already compared Haar against Michalis with Hauteclere's unique refine in the same post you're quoting.

I also don't agree with units needing to "bring something new to the table". That's how we keep ending up with niche units with little general use.

Edited April 9, 2019 by Ice Dragon

[Troykv]

51 minutes ago, Tree said:

That would have given him something interesting to use that aligns with his stats. They gave him slightly more defense than most axe fliers yet paired that with a brave axe without the attack to really make good use of it. As a launch unit, his attack might have been OK for a brave axe, but he's not a good choice for it now. Giving him Gerome's Poleaxe or even just a Hammer would have been more useful. As it is, there is an extra 20,000 feather cost just to give him an average weapon.

Talking about that... Do you think people would have though Cherche is overpower if she was released this year? (Just changing a few things from her base kit: Atk+3 for Death Blow and Hammer+ for the slaying version, or Cherche's Axe directy).

[Jingle Jangle]

17 minutes ago, Troykv said:

Talking about that... Do you think people would have though Cherche is overpower if she was released this year? (Just changing a few things from her base kit: Atk+3 for Death Blow and Hammer+ for the slaying version, or Cherche's Axe directy).

I would say yes, having a updated build can help her out. Her power comes from her super brave ax and high attack to one shot the tankest blue armor (with some greens). But being commonly available, improves her. 

Edited April 9, 2019 by Jingle Jangle

[NegativeExponents-]

10 minutes ago, Troykv said:

Talking about that... Do you think people would have though Cherche is overpower if she was released this year? (Just changing a few things from her base kit: Atk+3 for Death Blow and Hammer+ for the slaying version, or Cherche's Axe directy).

53 atk with her atk refined axe and a +atk nature? Yeah she’d definitely still be considered broken. Not to mention she has a better movement than her fellow competitors of equal or higher atk cause she’s a flier with New Year Hrid being the only other flier with equal atk stat but lacks a prf Brave Axe like Cherche.

[XRay]

15 minutes ago, Alkaid said:

Eh, Michalis still has his higher nuke power with his specials so give him an edge for it.

If you mean nuking potential on Player Phase, then sure, Michalis's nuking potential might be a little higher due to his better Spd.

If you mean nuking potential on Enemy Phase, Haar is definitely superior. Hauteclere [special] is essentially Atk Refine, but with HP+3 Atk+5 instead of HP+5 Atk+2, and that is a bad Refinement for tanks since their nuking potential comes from surviving doubles with sky high bulk and countering with Quick Riposte. Directly increasing the damage output of a tank to increase their combat performance is very inefficient compared to directly increasing their bulk. For a Def/Res tank, each point in Def/Res not only means 1 point in Def/Res, but it also means 0.25/0.4 points in Atk due to Bonfire/Ignis; on the other hand, each point in Atk just means 1 point in Atk.

Hauteclere [special] essentially gives you a flat increase of just +8 stats, whereas Def refine gives you +9 visible stats as well as a theoretical +1/1.6 to Atk on top of that.

[EricaofRenais]

Well looks like the trend of my favs being meh keeps on going.  Well Haar is still going to be a merge project for me since of the ax fliers now in the game he is my fav.  

[Alkaid]

 

1 minute ago, XRay said:

If you mean nuking potential on Player Phase, then sure, Michalis's nuking potential might be a little higher due to his better Spd.

If you mean nuking potential on Enemy Phase, Haar is definitely superior. Hauteclere [special] is essentially Atk Refine, but with HP+3 Atk+5 instead of HP+5 Atk+2, and that is a bad Refinement for tanks since their nuking potential comes from surviving doubles with sky high bulk and countering with Quick Riposte. Directly increasing the damage output of a tank to increase their combat performance is very inefficient compared to directly increasing their bulk. For a Def/Res tank, each point in Def/Res not only means 1 point in Def/Res, but it also means 0.25/0.4 points in Atk due to Bonfire/Ignis; on the other hand, each point in Atk just means 1 point in Atk.

Hauteclere [special] essentially gives you a flat increase of just +8 stats, whereas Def refine gives you +9 visible stats as well as a theoretical +1/1.6 to Atk on top of that.

Yes, I mean with a Bonfire charged Michalis has a higher output with it on player phase due to the Wo Dao effect. Just an extra flair he has. Enemy phase-wise, I don't find much to talk about between them since they're close enough you might as well just build whichever one you like best. I've run numbers too, and the difference is just not that big. I don't even like Michalis, but of the 3 options he's got a little more damage potential. For primarily walling things, I'd rather just use Beruka over any of them anyway, so that's why I put a bit more emphasis on their higher damage when looking at them.

56 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

@XRay literally already compared Haar against Michalis with Hauteclere's unique refine in the same post you're quoting.

I also don't agree with units needing to "bring something new to the table". That's how we keep ending up with niche units with little general use.

The point is that besides favoritism he's pretty much just Gerome again. Kind of uninteresting to have 2 units in the GHB/TT pool that are about the same. I guess his Wave fodder is what's supposed to be most unique about him.

[Ice Dragon]

4 minutes ago, Alkaid said:

The point is that besides favoritism he's pretty much just Gerome again. Kind of uninteresting to have 2 units in the GHB/TT pool that are about the same. I guess his Wave fodder is what's supposed to be most unique about him.

And then we have Takumi and Clarisse, who have exactly identical stats except for Res (with Takumi having an extremely niche exclusive weapon), and Camus and Finn, where Camus's only saving grace is Gradivus.

The more characters we get in the game, the more they're going to overlap.

Edited April 9, 2019 by Ice Dragon

[Tree]

1 hour ago, Ice Dragon said:

Slaying weapons are hardly "average". They are by far the best inheritable weapons in the game for melee physical weapon types with Wo Dao weapons as their only real competition (and only for units unable to use Wrath or Special Spiral) and are fully capable of competing with many exclusive weapons.

By average or common, I meant non-unique and inheritable. These common weapons aren't necessarily bad, but they are usually inferior to special weapons. (Bladetomes and Lightning Breath are some exceptions.) Slaying weapons are still good, but there are so many units that have special versions of them that the standard slaying weapons are starting to fall behind a bit.

1 hour ago, Ice Dragon said:

I'm sick and tired of weapons and skills that should be in the standard summoning pool being Grail-exclusive (I'm looking at you, Gerome, Robin, and Berkut).

Definitely. I don't see why they can't just add those weapons to new units in the regular pools and have them serve as the demote unit. The weapons are already inheritable and are not so good as to be 5* exclusive (20,000 feathers should be an adequate cost). They really shouldn't stay grail exclusive even if introduced on a limited unit.

1 minute ago, Ice Dragon said:

And then we have Takumi and Clarisse, who have exactly identical stats except for Res (with Takumi having an extremely niche exclusive weapon), and Camus and Finn, where Camus's only saving grace is Gradivus.

Honestly, I'd have been happy if they had given Haar the Tomahawk from Dorcas even though Haar probably wouldn't be able to use it all that well with his low resistance. They really didn't give Haar much of anything except a wave skill.

[Alkaid]

2 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

And then we have Takumi and Clarisse, who have exactly identical stats except for Res (with Takumi having an extremely niche exclusive weapon), and Camus and Finn, where Camus's only saving grace is Gradivus.

The more characters we get in the game, the more they're going to overlap.

Of course, though I'd say the differences from those prfs is still a lot more than can be said for Gerome and Haar. It's just especially close with them. Gradivus is pretty major in letting Camus can be used different from Finn, and Takumi's niche effect even has a little more use now for with AR. (Poor Clarisse just has nothing at all over him, though. Hopefully she gets a refine herself at some point)

[Lewyn]

WIthout spoiling anything now looking at the stats I am fully expecting no demotes.  I don't think it is something one can count on if wanting any of these units.  Maybe in time we could get a zootopia banner with all the beasts at elevated pull rates?  

[Icelerate]

I'm shocked Haar did not get a prf when even old units nowadays get prf refines. It's not like Brave Axe wasn't already in the pool. 

[NegativeExponents-]

10 minutes ago, Lewyn said:

WIthout spoiling anything now looking at the stats I am fully expecting no demotes.  I don't think it is something one can count on if wanting any of these units.

I’m starting to feel that too which sucks because that’ll mean I’ll have to split orbs between Ranulf and Mordecai. Wish this banner didn’t come right after Yune’s banner so I could have had some time to replenish my orbs.

[Ice Dragon]

11 minutes ago, Icelerate said:

I'm shocked Haar did not get a prf when even old units nowadays get prf refines. It's not like Brave Axe wasn't already in the pool. 

Free units that are not notable antagonists generally don't get exclusive weapons unless they actually had a signature weapon in their original game.

The few non-antagonist free units with exclusive weapons are

• Joshua: Has Audhumla to mirror the other Magvel royals, who each carry one of their country's Sacred Twins.
• Masked Marth: Has Falchion, which is an exclusive weapon in the source game.
• Xander: Has Siegfried, which is an exclusive weapon in the source game.
• Naesala: Is a beast unit, and there are no inheritable 5-star beast weapons in Heroes.
• Panne: Is a beast unit, and there are no inheritable 5-star beast weapons in Heroes.
• Dream Azura: Is an original character.
• Navarre: Was retroactively given an exclusive weapon due to being weak and outdated.

Haar had no reason to be expected to be given an exclusive weapon.

[Troykv]

58 minutes ago, Lewyn said:

WIthout spoiling anything now looking at the stats I am fully expecting no demotes.  I don't think it is something one can count on if wanting any of these units.  Maybe in time we could get a zootopia banner with all the beasts at elevated pull rates?  

Well who knows; this is a bit like the case of Soleil and Reyson.

Soleil has stats that looks "too premium" to be used for "mortals", and Reyson has a niche that is "too premium" to be used for "mortals".

___

I think the reason why the previous banner didn't demoted anyone, it's because IS thought any of these possibilities for the Fates' Beast banner

1.- The banner it's essencially a Special Brave Redux feauting units that weren't unable to be used in the previous Brave Redux, this is specially noticeable with Selkie, which actually scored higher that Aversa.

2.- The banner was considered a crossover thematic banner (because of using Birthright and Conquest characters.. and Awakening if we count Panne).

Edited April 9, 2019 by Troykv

[Lewyn]

44 minutes ago, NegativeExponents- said:

I’m starting to feel that too which sucks because that’ll mean I’ll have to split orbs between Ranulf and Mordecai. Wish this banner didn’t come right after Yune’s banner so I could have had some time to replenish my orbs.

Yeah same here, Yune banner killed me.  Had to dip into this month's orbs (all monthly quest orbs) on it.  We got one new squad assault with update so there is that, however every other squad assault, all lunatic chain challenge, and the grandmaster quests that reward orbs are all done.  Every FTP orb source has been drained.  Pulling on this banner is likely all this month's orbs (I have almost none now, but pulling as we get more as the weeks go by hopefully this one lasts a month) and an auto skip of legendary banner.  The one downside of having all these amazing dream banners in close succession (for me) there just aren't enough orbs.  Yet since they are must pull, one can't skip entirely.

6 minutes ago, Troykv said:

Well who knows; this is a bit like the case of Soleil and Reyson.

Soleil has stats that looks "too premium" to be used for "mortals", and Reyson has a niche that is "too premium" to be used for "mortals".

Soleil has good stats and comes with firesweep sword, but has no personal weapon and the red infantry sword is the most bloated.  Reyson we may have gotten cause they wanted people to have a taste for beasts.  I mean remember the Fates beasts?  No one demoted.  All the Gallian beasts have PRF weapons, good stat spreads and good fodder.  

[Troykv]

1 minute ago, Lewyn said:

Yeah same here, Yune banner killed me.  Had to dip into this month's orbs (all monthly quest orbs) on it.  We got one new squad assault with update so there is that, however every other squad assault, all lunatic chain challenge, and the grandmaster quests that reward orbs are all done.  Every FTP orb source has been drained.  Pulling on this banner is likely all this month's orbs (I have almost none now, but pulling as we get more as the weeks go by hopefully this one lasts a month) and an auto skip of legendary banner.  The one downside of having all these amazing dream banners in close succession (for me) there just aren't enough orbs.  Yet since they are must pull, one can't skip entirely.

Soleil has good stats and comes with firesweep sword, but has no personal weapon and the red infantry sword is the most bloated.  Reyson we may have gotten cause they wanted people to have a taste for beasts.  I mean remember the Fates beasts?  No one demoted.  All the Gallian beasts have PRF weapons, good stat spreads and good fodder.  

Oh yeah, I'm aware of that; I edited the text to explain why I think the Fates Beasts nobody demoted.

And you're not completely right about skills, Mordecai has Beast Exp; a QoL skill; but not Beast Valor.