Thinking of doing Birthright Lunatic

[Shadow Mir]

6 hours ago, Azure in a Roundabout said:

Just so I know, what is considered to be when mid-game starts?

I would agree with the area around chapters 14 to 16.

[SSJDennis]

2 hours ago, Azure in a Roundabout said:

@Ertrick36 What if you forge bronze weapons like @DehNutCase ?

Bronze weapons won't let you activate skills. You can also not crit. with them.

They also cost money, better spend elsewhere. From top of my head, a +2 Bronze is a bit weaker then a +1 Iron. Which is twice(?) as cheap, as you only need two copies, instead of four.

Last, you cannot forge unlimited. Early game its only +1, early mid +2 etc. Can't really recall chapters though.

[Ertrick36]

3 hours ago, Azure in a Roundabout said:

@Ertrick36 What if you forge bronze weapons like @DehNutCase ?

Well, you have to expend resources then, and at that point you have to determine if you want to expend those resources to make weapons to make training weapon ranks easier.  Whenever I speak about this kind of stuff, I'm usually referring to no-grind runs, and in no-grind runs you probably won't get forgeries beyond +3 (and I'd even say that's generous).

It really just depends, but overall it's kind of the same principle as considering whether or not you want to feed such units Arms Scrolls except you technically can acquire money and minerals indefinitely if you grind.  It's a matter of "do I want to spend the time and the resources to make this unit into such-and-such class at so-and-so point in the story".  And that ultimately is up to each individual player.

Also, what SSJDennis said.  There are disadvantages to using bronze weapons, and there are some more cost effective things you could do.

Edited April 15, 2019 by Ertrick36

[Cysx]

Seeing all this talk about bronze forging made me remember that the 3DS is dying and that the meta of this game will significantly change once its internet gets shut down at some point during the coming decade. Without it, you can't forge liberally, you're very much restricted, especially early on. In a sense that might have been the intention.

[Comycat_Aleu]

Thanks for all the tips, I've found its actually ridiculously easy. I'm trying to use Orochi and she's having trouble keeping up, but Silas is doing better than he did in my normal run. So far I've only grabbed Selkie and I'm at chapter 15. I had tons of trouble with Mokushu forest. But other than that it's been smooth sailing.

I should probably drop Orochi for Izana once I can, though I loathe to loose the bulk she has. If I remember right, he joins as an Onmyoji? If so is reclassing him worth anything?

Also should I reclass Jakob? Rude boi hasn't been pulling his weight.

I never got into the technical stuff before, so if anyone knows or has a link to how damage is calculated please let me know! 

[Shadow Mir]

31 minutes ago, Comycat_Aleu said:

I should probably drop Orochi for Izana once I can, though I loathe to loose the bulk she has. If I remember right, he joins as an Onmyoji? If so is reclassing him worth anything?

...wait, am I reading this right? You used Orochi and bulk in the same sentence? Anyway, yes, he joins as an Onmyoji. And no, reclassing him ain't worth anything (he has physical classes for most of his class pool for whatever reason).

Edited April 16, 2019 by Shadow Mir

[Comycat_Aleu]

37 minutes ago, Shadow Mir said:

...wait, am I reading this right? You used Orochi and bulk in the same sentence? Anyway, yes, he joins as an Onmyoji. And no, reclassing him ain't worth anything (he has physical classes for most of his class pool for whatever reason).

For some reason my Orochi came out weirdly bulky. I never looked up her stat growths and never seen them around because... She just exists?

Orochi you had ONE job

[Ertrick36]

1 hour ago, Comycat_Aleu said:

For some reason my Orochi came out weirdly bulky. I never looked up her stat growths and never seen them around because... She just exists?

Orochi you had ONE job

You got very lucky, she has a defense growth of only 25%.  It’s actually one of her absolute worst stats, alongside speed and obviously strength.  In fact, the only stat she actually excells with is magic, but that ain’t worth jack if she can neither dodge, double, nor take more than a single hit.

Basically, she’s almost always a pain to use unless you feed her tons of boosters.

And you get Izana after you upgrade the Hot Spring to 3rd level, which will be lategame.  He’s only good as a mage or healer (but then again, virtually anyone can be a healer), and all his other classes see fit to give him physical weapons instead of magic.

[Comycat_Aleu]

44 minutes ago, Ertrick36 said:

You got very lucky, she has a defense growth of only 25%.  It’s actually one of her absolute worst stats, alongside speed and obviously strength.  In fact, the only stat she actually excells with is magic, but that ain’t worth jack if she can neither dodge, double, nor take more than a single hit.

Basically, she’s almost always a pain to use unless you feed her tons of boosters.

And you get Izana after you upgrade the Hot Spring to 3rd level, which will be lategame.  He’s only good as a mage or healer (but then again, virtually anyone can be a healer), and all his other classes see fit to give him physical weapons instead of magic.

I need party room so I'm dropping her anyways. There seems to be a real lack of viable magic users in Birthright. I'm still early midgame so my luck is going to wear itself thin. I don't mind late game units (besides Shura, he's ridiculously late game). 

It's a real shame, I love her design and a few of her supports

[LoneRecon400]

Speaking of Orochi, it might be helpful for you to utilize her capture skill to get some enemy units. They can provide some good pair up bonuses and skills you'd otherwise would have to use good units to waste their turn on using. 

For example, you can capture the Wyvrren Lord in Midori's Paralouge for  his pair up bonuses (+3 Str, +3 Def, +1 Mov) that also learns Rally Defense in three levels. Same thing can be done with the Berserker in the same chapter for an really good offensive pair up (+5 Str, +3 Spd) and Rally Strength. 

Cavaliers can also learn in Shelter in two levels, which makes it possible to have Azura dance twice in a single turn.

And remember that you capture generic enemy bosses as well. The one in Silas's Paralouge is particularly noteworthy thanks to having stats and growths on par with Camila.

Also, if you're still curious forged weapons, forged bronze weapons are the way to go, as long as you're willing to grind for the materials.

At +3, they have the same might as a Steel Weapon without the drawback and  have +15 hit while only costing 4000 gold. They won't allow you to activate skills or crit, but enemies in Birthright are so weak you won't need either to beat enemies with enough investment.

A +2 Iron also has the same might as a +3 Bronze and cost the same, but they also have 10 les Hit compared to their bronze variants. 

Edited April 16, 2019 by LoneRecon400

[Comycat_Aleu]

2 minutes ago, LoneRecon400 said:

Speaking of Orochi, it might be helpful for you to utilize her capture skill to get some enemy units. They can provide some Good  Pair Ups bonuses and skills you'd otherwise would have to use good units to waste their turn on using. 

For example, you can capture the Wyvrren Lord in Chapter 13 for his pair up bonuses  that also learns Rally Defense in three levels. Same thing can be done with the Berserker in the next chapter for an really good offensive pair up and Rally Strength. Cavaliers can also learn in Shelter in two levels, which makes it possible to have dance twice in a single turn.

And remember that you capture generic enemy bosses as well. The one in Silas's Paralouge is particularly noteworthy thanks to having stats and growths on par with Camila.

Also, if you're still curious forged weapons, forged bronze weapons are the way to go, as long as you're willing to grind for the materials.

At +3, they have the same might as a Steel Weapon without the drawback and +15 hit while only costing 4000 gold. They won't allow you tobactivate skills or crit, but enemies in Birthright are so weak you won't need either to beat enemies with enough investment.

A +2 Iron also has the same might as a +3 Bronze and cost the same, but they also have 10 les Hit compared to their bronze variants. 

 

I am past 13, and currently have no party room (I'm switching Orochi with scarlet since she's way more useful). I would rather use the normal units anyways, though I suppose catching a few of the bosses could be useful. I haven't played around with capture much, can you capture a beast unit? In hindsight I wish I thought about capturing that wyvern lord, as that would be a good axe user besides scarlet.

I'm really tight on gold because of master seals, I did end up forging a +3 bronze for my Lodestar Takumi (don't even ask, I don't know what I am doing either)

[LoneRecon400]

10 hours ago, Comycat_Aleu said:

I haven't played around with capture much, can you capture a beast unit?

I am past 13, and currently have no party room. I would rather use the normal units anyways, though I suppose catching a few of the bosses could be useful. 

If by beast unit you mean the Wolfskin in Chapter 15, you cannot. 

You can also just capture enemies from the various Paralouges if you ever want some more options. I know off that off the top of my head Kaze's Paralouge always has some Wyvern Lords.

If you want a standout unit boss unit, the one in Silas's Paralouge has some great stats: https://imgur.com/a/c1aMgOu

Paralouges also scale by chapter, so he'd be even stronger then what listed here.

Edited April 16, 2019 by LoneRecon400

[Shadow Mir]

On 4/14/2019 at 12:51 AM, Cysx said:

And you shouldn't be impressed. But it's not like the guard naginata itself doesn't have problems; it's weak, its accuracy is suboptimal and it lowers avoidance; it also cannot counter 2 range, period. Yet it's still considered as one of the best weapons in BR, because damage mitigation is that useful. Obviously your damage will be awful with the horse spirit, but the idea is, Oni Chieftain gets a tanking weapon, and Blacksmith does not(outside of random drops). Countering at all from range also builds guard gauge(and you'll likely be doubling because of the +3 spd) , or can be taken advantage of to attack stance through enemy phase with proper positioning. Compensates for the negligible damage, and helps build weapon ranks for characters with bad enemy phase(that's most of your units).

None of that is top tier, obviously, but it's still stuff Chieftain has, that Blacksmith doesn't.

That doesn't mean jack when all of the Oni Chieftain candidates are pretty shaky units. I'd rather just give some tanky lance unit a Guard Naginata and call it a day.

Edited April 16, 2019 by Shadow Mir

[Ertrick36]

6 hours ago, Comycat_Aleu said:

I am past 13, and currently have no party room (I'm switching Orochi with scarlet since she's way more useful). I would rather use the normal units anyways, though I suppose catching a few of the bosses could be useful. I haven't played around with capture much, can you capture a beast unit? In hindsight I wish I thought about capturing that wyvern lord, as that would be a good axe user besides scarlet.

Don’t worry too much about capturing units.  The units you recruit normally are good enough, I’d say capturing is mostly good for fodder - expendable units you can kill off without worries of repercussions - but beyond that they aren’t particularly worth it.

With that said, I actually don't know if you can capture Wolfskin or Wolfssegner, but I do know some of the units you can’t capture include those you recruit in Conquest (like Camilla and Xander; Fuga too because you only recruit him in Revelation), “invaders” (anyone who glows purple and goes invisible), Zola, Hans, Iago, the faceless, golems, and obviously Garon.  You can capture all standard generic units that aren't invaders (including those with special skills, such as the notorious Rallyman in Conquest), Daniela, Lloyd, Llewelyn (can't capture their siblings in Anna's chapter, though), Candace, Nichol, Tarba, Funke, and Daichi.

Edited April 16, 2019 by Ertrick36

[Cysx]

3 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

That doesn't mean jack when all of the Oni Chieftain candidates are pretty shaky units. I'd rather just give some tanky lance unit a Guard Naginata and call it a day.

Which was the premise of both of our original posts, yes. It really doesn't matter.

[SSJDennis]

19 hours ago, Comycat_Aleu said:

Also should I reclass Jakob? Rude boi hasn't been pulling his weight.

You should use your first Heart Seal on him. Paladin Jakob is amazing. Also the early E-ranks aren't a problem, but might be less amazing if staying in Butler for too long.

[Comycat_Aleu]

10 hours ago, Ertrick36 said:

Don’t worry too much about capturing units.  The units you recruit normally are good enough, I’d say capturing is mostly good for fodder - expendable units you can kill off without worries of repercussions - but beyond that they aren’t particularly worth it.

With that said, I actually don't know if you can capture Wolfskin or Wolfssegner, but I do know some of the units you can’t capture include those you recruit in Conquest (like Camilla and Xander; Fuga too because you only recruit him in Revelation), “invaders” (anyone who glows purple and goes invisible), Zola, Hans, Iago, the faceless, golems, and obviously Garon.  You can capture all standard generic units that aren't invaders (including those with special skills, such as the notorious Rallyman in Conquest), Daniela, Lloyd, Llewelyn (can't capture their siblings in Anna's chapter, though), Candace, Nichol, Tarba, Funke, and Daichi.

That's actually pretty neat, maybe grounds for a special challenge run aiming to use only captured units (when possible.) I don't think Wolfskins are capturable, just tried (also now read above that they are not capturable)

Edited April 16, 2019 by Comycat_Aleu