Fire at Notre Dame Cathedral

[dragonlordsd]

Fortunately, it looks like the damage was not as bad as people feared. Most of the art was saved, and the cathedral is still structurally sound. Also, as many people have pointed out, Notre Dame has been damaged many times throughout its history, and this may not even be the worst it has seen.

Just a quick glance over wikipedia gives the following examples:

"A colossal statue of St Christopher, standing against a pillar near the western entrance and dating from 1413, was destroyed in 1786."

"The spire, which had been damaged by the wind, was removed in the second part of the 18th century."

"During this time, many of the treasures of the cathedral were either destroyed or plundered. The twenty-eight statues of biblical kings located at the west façade, mistaken for statues of French kings, were beheaded."

"All of the other large statues on the facade, with the exception of the statue of the Virgin Mary on the portal of the cloister, were destroyed."

"The cathedral was functioning in the early 19th century, but was half-ruined inside and battered throughout."

"The stone masonry of the cathedral's exterior had deteriorated in the 19th and 20th century due to increased air pollution in Paris, which accelerated erosion of decorations and discolored the stone. By the late 1980s, several gargoyles and turrets had also fallen off or become too loose to remain in place."

 

So, it'll probably be alright. That said, if the towers had collapsed, things would have been much, much worse, so it was a close call there. And obviously, most of the artwork would have been irreplaceable.

[Jotari]

52 minutes ago, dragonlordsd said:

Fortunately, it looks like the damage was not as bad as people feared. Most of the art was saved, and the cathedral is still structurally sound. Also, as many people have pointed out, Notre Dame has been damaged many times throughout its history, and this may not even be the worst it has seen.

Just a quick glance over wikipedia gives the following examples:

"A colossal statue of St Christopher, standing against a pillar near the western entrance and dating from 1413, was destroyed in 1786."

"The spire, which had been damaged by the wind, was removed in the second part of the 18th century."

"During this time, many of the treasures of the cathedral were either destroyed or plundered. The twenty-eight statues of biblical kings located at the west façade, mistaken for statues of French kings, were beheaded."

"All of the other large statues on the facade, with the exception of the statue of the Virgin Mary on the portal of the cloister, were destroyed."

"The cathedral was functioning in the early 19th century, but was half-ruined inside and battered throughout."

"The stone masonry of the cathedral's exterior had deteriorated in the 19th and 20th century due to increased air pollution in Paris, which accelerated erosion of decorations and discolored the stone. By the late 1980s, several gargoyles and turrets had also fallen off or become too loose to remain in place."

 

So, it'll probably be alright. That said, if the towers had collapsed, things would have been much, much worse, so it was a close call there. And obviously, most of the artwork would have been irreplaceable.

In a strange way the fire actually adds to the history of the building. It's another page in the history of the cathedral that will be recorded for centuries to come. And unlike the previous instances, there's actual footage of it to refer to. Which is kind of crazy if you think about it. We obviously see history every day by keeping up to date with the news and stuff, but seldom does one see history so distinctly and clearly with full conception of it's impact and how it'll be recorded and viewed in later centuries.

[Anacybele]

Notre Dame's name translates to Our Lady in English, so yeah, that place is very important to France. It'd be like if the Statue of Liberty in the US were destroyed. Both are "ladies" and representative icons of their respective nations.

Even if ironically, it was the French who gifted us the statue and they also have one of their own in Paris... lol

[Acacia Sgt]

1 hour ago, Anacybele said:

Notre Dame's name translates to Our Lady in English, so yeah, that place is very important to France. It'd be like if the Statue of Liberty in the US were destroyed. Both are "ladies" and representative icons of their respective nations.

Even if ironically, it was the French who gifted us the statue and they also have one of their own in Paris... lol

Actually, Notre Dame is not quite the name of the cathedral, even if most people call it like that. The cathedral is dedicated to the Virgin Mary, hence why it's called "The Cathedral of Our Lady [Mary]". Notre Dame is not the church itself. To wit, there are a considerable number of Notre Dames all over France and even some in the former French colonial empire.

It's true, however, that the one in Paris is the most iconic one.

[Anacybele]

4 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Actually, Notre Dame is not quite the name of the cathedral, even if most people call it like that. The cathedral is dedicated to the Virgin Mary, hence why it's called "The Cathedral of Our Lady [Mary]". Notre Dame is not the church itself. To wit, there are a considerable number of Notre Dames all over France and even some in the former French colonial empire.

It's true, however, that the one in Paris is the most iconic one.

...Big Ben is not actually the name of London's iconic clock tower, now Notre Dame is not actually the cathedral's name? What is up with American teachings about these places then? :/ And why must these famous landmarks be confusing...

Edited April 16, 2019 by Anacybele

[Interdimensional Observer]

6 hours ago, Jotari said:

The replica would long be viewed as not up to scratch with the original until it Garners a long history of its own (like the white house which had its entire interior destroyed in the war of 1812).

Not to mention the West Wing is Theodore Roosevelt addition. And then it was a little too vigorously gutted when in the late 1940s-early 1950s Truman renovated the building after a piano leg breaking through the 1st floor's ceiling proved to be the last straw. There is very little left of the earlier structures.

Though the White House is a much more lived in building than Notre Dame. Notre Dame is used on a daily basis, but not as the residency of one of the world's most important modern leaders.

 

1 minute ago, Acacia Sgt said:

To wit, there are a considerable number of Notre Dames all over France and even some in the former French colonial empire.

And the same can be said of numerous churches. There are only so many names to use and really popular saints or other religious figures who people like to reference. The number of St. James out there is probably in the thousands, but there is only one St. James/Iago in Spain which pilgrims flock to.

 

2 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

...Big Ben is not actually the name of London's iconic clock tower, now Notre Dame is not actually the cathedral's name? What is up with American teachings about these places then? :/ And why must these famous landmarks be confusing...

It's useful shorthand that has stuck around for some reason. The full name at the Spanish founding of the city of Los Angeles was El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora la Reina de los Ángeles, which translates as "The Town of Our Lady the Queen of the Angels".

[Anacybele]

3 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

It's useful shorthand that has stuck around for some reason. The full name at the Spanish founding of the city of Los Angeles was El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora la Reina de los Ángeles, which translates as "The Town of Our Lady the Queen of the Angels".

Huh, I see. And wow, that name is a mouthful, I can see why it's shortened to just Los Angeles. :P

Also, this is kinda funny and interesting.

A video game can help restore Notre Dame, wow. XD

Edited April 16, 2019 by Anacybele

[Acacia Sgt]

7 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

It's useful shorthand that has stuck around for some reason. The full name at the Spanish founding of the city of Los Angeles was El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora la Reina de los Ángeles, which translates as "The Town of Our Lady the Queen of the Angels".

Heh, you forgot the last part: Del Río de Porciúncula. So it's "The Town of Our Lady the Queen of the Angels of the Porciuncula River".

Edited April 16, 2019 by Acacia Sgt

[TheGoodHoms]

6 hours ago, Anacybele said:

What is up with American teachings about these places then?

As a devout Catholic I can testify that American education censures the influence of Catholicism and other major religions on world history for the sake of keeping things secular. I understand that public education has to be as neutral as possible on the subject of religion, but as a result we're feeding our children half-truths in the process. The French Revolution for instance wasn't just about the common folk rising up against a flawed monarchy, they also wanted to destroy the Catholic Church. Hundreds of priests were executed and thousands more had to flee the country for their lives, thousands of faithful parishioners who refused to denounce the church also suffered similar fates. That's just one of many examples of just how important the role of religion is in human history, but still gets glossed over in the history books 9 times out of 10 anyway. It makes no sense to me since you can still teach the historical influences of Christianity or Judaism or Islam or any other religion in an academic manner without promoting conversions.

[Jotari]

7 hours ago, Anacybele said:

...Big Ben is not actually the name of London's iconic clock tower, now Notre Dame is not actually the cathedral's name? What is up with American teachings about these places then? :/ And why must these famous landmarks be confusing...

You think that's bad? The Pope isn't even the Pope.

 

8 minutes ago, TheGoodHoms said:

As a devout Catholic I can testify that American education censures the influence of Catholicism and other major religions on world history for the sake of keeping things secular. I understand that public education has to be as neutral as possible on the subject of religion, but as a result we're feeding our children half-truths in the process. The French Revolution for instance wasn't just about the common folk rising up against a flawed monarchy, they also wanted to destroy the Catholic Church. Hundreds of priests were executed and thousands more had to flee the country for their lives, thousands of faithful parishioners who refused to denounce the church also suffered similar fates. That's just one of many examples of just how important the role of religion is in human history, but still gets glossed over in the history books 9 times out of 10 anyway. It makes no sense to me since you can still teach the historical influences of Christianity or Judaism or Islam or any other religion in an academic manner without promoting conversions.

Might be less to do with secularism and more to do with the fact that there's just a shit tonne of history in general and it's hard to cover everything. There's plenty of super important non religious things too that most people know little about.

[Anacybele]

5 minutes ago, Jotari said:

You think that's bad? The Pope isn't even the Pope.

 

...Wow. I mean...is everything I thought I knew about Europe going to be a lie now?

Fuck religion anyway though, I despise all of it and wish it never existed.

[Jotari]

5 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

...Wow. I mean...is everything I thought I knew about Europe going to be a lie now?

Fuck religion anyway though, I despise all of it and wish it never existed.

If it helps, most of what you know about American and Asian history is probably wrong too.

[Anacybele]

4 minutes ago, Jotari said:

If it helps, most of what you know about American and Asian history is probably wrong too.

Then you're calling every one of the schools I went to liars and that's just silly.

[Acacia Sgt]

5 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

Then you're calling every one of the schools I went to liars and that's just silly.

Being silly doesn't make it any less true or false, though.

You'd be surprised how often history is concealed, or altered, or embellished.

[Jotari]

20 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

Then you're calling every one of the schools I went to liars and that's just silly.

Not liars...more...incomplete and imprecise.

[Acacia Sgt]

The jist of it is that it's a very complex matter. Tons of factors in play. A bit of everything and nothing at the same time.

[Anacybele]

3 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Not liars...more...incomplete and imprecise.

Okay, that would make a bit more sense.

[Tetragrammaton]

17 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

Okay, that would make a bit more sense.

This might gives you a little bit of knowledge.

 

Edited April 17, 2019 by Tetragrammaton

[Jotari]

25 minutes ago, Tetragrammaton said:

This might gives you a little bit of knowledge.

  Hide contents

Honestly don't really see how that's relevant. Fun that the pope's come up twice in this thread though.

[TheGoodHoms]

47 minutes ago, Jotari said:

You think that's bad? The Pope isn't even the Pope.

Basing such a claim off a comedy television program seems shaky at best, they're just stretching technicalities for comedic effect. Of course the Pope is a Catholic, no amount of reality TV is going to change that, especially not a TV show you aren't meant to take very seriously. Religion can be a pretty delicate subject so I recommend you avoid basing your information on something made for entertainment and use sources written with the intention of being educational and/or informative. I hope this doesn't sound too harsh, but I put this forum under serious discussion for a reason, so please keep the discussion as professional as possible.

[Jotari]

5 minutes ago, TheGoodHoms said:

Basing such a claim off a comedy television program seems shaky at best, they're just stretching technicalities for comedic effect. Of course the Pope is a Catholic, no amount of reality TV is going to change that, especially not a TV show you aren't meant to take very seriously. Religion can be a pretty delicate subject so I recommend you avoid basing your information on something made for entertainment and use sources written with the intention of being educational and/or informative. I hope this doesn't sound too harsh, but I put this forum under serious discussion for a reason, so please keep the discussion as professional as possible.

They literally called the papal office to confirm the pope's title. You want a second source. Here

https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/national-international/Pope-Titles--196518461.html?amp=y

And they're taking their source from the Vatican's own website. Pope is a colloquial term meaning father, like you'd call any priest a father. Obviously many people call him the pope and if you say pope people will know who you mean, in the exact same vein how if you say Big Ben people will know what you mean even though it's not actually the tower's name. QI being a comedy show isn't a basis to declare everything they say as untrue. They twist definitions to pedantic humor, but they do work within known facts to the best of their ability.

[FrostyFireMage]

Apparently this is but one of many incidents regarding Catholic churches in France recently, it's pretty worrisome

[eclipse]

2 hours ago, Anacybele said:

Fuck religion anyway though, I despise all of it and wish it never existed.

Hey.  Do remember that your dear darling mod happens to follow a religion.  As do a bunch of other people on this site.

33 minutes ago, FrostyFireMage said:

Apparently this is but one of many incidents regarding Catholic churches in France recently, it's pretty worrisome

I'm going to be most unhappy if the fire was intentionally set.

[Anacybele]

17 minutes ago, eclipse said:

Hey.  Do remember that your dear darling mod happens to follow a religion.  As do a bunch of other people on this site.

That is true. And I don't mean any harm to you or them. I guess I was just feeling that upset at learning that some things I thought I knew weren't really true...

They keep saying the fire was an accident, but...I really hope they're not wrong about that.

Edited April 17, 2019 by Anacybele

[TheGoodHoms]

6 hours ago, Jotari said:

They literally called the papal office to confirm the pope's title. You want a second source. Here

https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/national-international/Pope-Titles--196518461.html?amp=y

Alright, I guess I can give you that one. I also rewatched the video and realized I didn't notice the part where they said they called the papal office the first time I saw it.