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Why do people hate armor knights in this game?


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I have always like generals in fire emblem and these guys seem just as good why the hate? I know the movement is low but with Silque I warp Lukas into the fight and he blocks everyone. I guess my playstyle is more enemy phase than most people I am not sure.

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for most its just the slow movements and they cannot survive magic users. It feels more like a chore sometimes to use them when you have dread fighters running around. 

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But you don't have dread fighters running around on Alm's path where you get the knights. Also I have not seen many mages at all.

Edited by Quickpawmaud
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I'm sure a lot of people have bad experiences with warping witches showing up to snipe your armor knights at a moment they're vulnerable. In the right circumstance these armor knights are excellent, but having the ability to grind in a fire emblem game really dilutes the need for units that excel in specific areas. And with the free DLC villager's pitchfork, players decide they might want to have a more well rounded unit instead.All of the armor knights in this game have great stats to make it as anything except for a mage, so it's not a bad call compared to the ocean of bad decisions that could be made through a reclass. 

Edited by Glennstavos
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8 minutes ago, Quickpawmaud said:

But you don't have dread fighters running around on Alm's path where you get the knights. Also I have not seen many mages at all.

You could make one of the villagers such as gray a dread fighter. In terms of enemy magic users, the number of them increase later on with witches/dark mages. Witches in particular have a nasty habit of teleporting right next to your armor knights and frying them with thunder.

Armor knights in Fire Emblem in general are pretty limited due to bad move (not as much of an issue if you don't mid playing slowly), and bad Speed/Res. This means in most cases, they have issues keeping up with the amount of damage they can due in comparison to other units, and get destroyed by any mage. There are oftentimes better choices *coughPaladinscough* that can do the same role, but often more utility. Armor knights are not useless, but are outclassed in most regards. 

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Because their only useful thing is base defence, wich can be transferred with the pitchfork, while DF antimagic, Cavaliers mobility, and Archers range are class locked. And they have the usual knight weaknesses. Kliff as a soldier is quite good, because he will end up both fast and durable, but 4 move remain suffering.

A baron forked into a cavalier trade a bit of extra defence againist arrow that he doesn't need for a mobility boost, is extremely hard to justifing staying there. Sure you have a lot of cavaliers and dread fighters, but 4 Cavaliers are better than 3 cavaliers and a knight, because a knight reclassed retain the main selling point of armors, the high defence. 

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6 minutes ago, Quickpawmaud said:

What would you even reclass them to? You get so many dread fighters and cavaliers that it would be better just to drop them wouldn't it?

It's really up to how you want to play honestly. Some people like class diversity, others could care less and stack only their favorite classes. Dread fighters are unique however, as they are the only 3rd tier class that can promote back to villager. That class cycling will make just about any unit godly, and is why pitchforks are often given to the armor knights, not just to change their class, but to completely erase most speed issues those units have while keeping impressive Def. 

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I know I will get 6 dreadfighters though (Gray, Deen, and Atlas) so I think it is more useful to get cavaliers. Assuming the armies come together at some point have not finished yet. Also that would be a lot of swords to have to forge up.

Edited by Quickpawmaud
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The lack of deployment slots make it hard for me to hate armours in Echoes. Sure they don't go anywhere fast, but there are plenty of instances in Alm's route where you can still just put them somewhere and have them tank a hit or two. Lukas especially is pretty usefull early game.

They do have a increasingly harder time to keep up as the story goes on. Dread fighters, horse archers, and cavalries all have a big range advantages over them. Mages have tools to play with and its even harder to move generals forward when enemy mages appear more. Tanking also just becomes less valuable when everyone starts to become really good.

And then there's Celica's route. Deserts and swamps are stacked on top of the many issue's that knights already have. Poor Valbar never gets anywhere when the game goes on.

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I agree I would not use a knight on Celica's route and Lukas totally carried me through the early game and is my only 3 tier unit. I want to keep 1 of them as a knight at least but who is the best knight?

Edited by Quickpawmaud
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It doesn't help that mages are the biggest threats in the game by far. Sure, Armor Knights are virtually invulnerable to most physical threats. But those just aren't that dangerous anyway.

Although it would no doubt have helped if the Armor Knights that you get would be better. Luka and Valdar don't contribute much to the class' bases. Forsythe is better in that regard, but he also starts out behind.

 

Edit: Kliff can be pretty fun as an Armored Knight. He actually has a decent amount of Res and his growths compliment the class nicely.

Edited by BrightBow
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Personally, I hate Echoes Knights because they aren't Halberdiers. I loved using Lukas while he was a soldier; he looked sleek and noble, and his stats actually made him feel as solid as all of my other infantry units. Halberdiers are a personal favorite class.

 

Then he promoted, and I realized, with horror, that everything that I liked about him was replaced with just another slow, clumsy, unelegant, and boring to use armor knight.

Edited by Etheus
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I don't hate them per say, but the game does them no favours. Alm's maps are mainly large fields that will take forever to treck with armour knights meanwhile Celica's maps consist of a lot of deserts/swamps which impede their movement more than it was already impeded. Witches don't help matters tbh and it's just easier to reclass Lukas, Forsyth and Valbar tbh (and you have enough forks to do so too). It is true you could use Silque's warp, but most often than not, you might want to use that on Gray or Alm so they can just massacre things (at least for me).

Mages suffer the same problems as armours with the mov beings shite, but at least they have magic to make use for the weak res enemies on Alm's route and terrors on Celica's.

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Simply put, their low movement. Though in that regard, there are FE games they're even worse off in, since you can at least use Warp on them here. Their awful resistance is also a problem, too (but to be fair, outside of specific characters, resistance tends to be very low).

41 minutes ago, BrightBow said:

It doesn't help that mages are the biggest threats in the game by far. Sure, Armor Knights are virtually invulnerable to most physical threats. But those just aren't that dangerous anyway.

I would beg to differ - Dread Fighters are as bad, if not worse because you only need to be faster than your opponent to double, and outside of your own Dread Fighters, they'll likely double attack everyone you have.

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6 minutes ago, Shadow Mir said:

I would beg to differ - Dread Fighters are as bad, if not worse because you only need to be faster than your opponent to double, and outside of your own Dread Fighters, they'll likely double attack everyone you have.

Maybe if they would appear in similar numbers to mages. As is, they are manageable. Heck, I don't even use Dread Fighters myself due to how unbalanced they are. And I still find them to be not that much of a problem when they appear as enemies.

Edited by BrightBow
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2 hours ago, BrightBow said:

Maybe if they would appear in similar numbers to mages. As is, they are manageable. Heck, I don't even use Dread Fighters myself due to how unbalanced they are. And I still find them to be not that much of a problem when they appear as enemies.

Personally, I found myself needing to resort to my own Dread Fighters or Barons to engage enemy Dread Fighters because not much else can do much against them (at least without the risk of getting critted out) - their attacks aren't exactly love taps to most anyone else. As far as mages go, I found Cantors the most bothersome by far, and it's NOT because of their offense, even if it doesn't help. Witches mostly use weak spells unless their names are Marla or Hestia, and they tend to not make the best moves when warping, too.

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Running out of time here, so: Witches are suicidal if you leave someone behind to deal with them. You don't bring knights near an crazy wizard. Knights are only good if you warp them ahead of your team. Lukas, Valbar, and Forsyth lack the speed to consistently slaughter things. And the only class that's worth playing is Priestess, Saints, archers, and dread fighters.

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I just give Clive an Ridersbane and call it an day.

Besides, it doesn't really help that Clive is fucked over by magic and Mathilda initially have low hp. The rest are kind of cool, but the only good chokepoints are in the dungeons; so...

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They're an pain in the ass to train. The Triangle Attack might be overkill. But the extra damage done to the undead and their mobility kind of redeems them. But I'd rather stick with crit-spamming the Brave Sword, using holy magic, and relying on bow knights. Being poisoned or immobilized really fucks up my day unless I'm intentionally stalling a zombie or two.

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