SoulWeaver Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 My issues with Knights are entirely Movement-based, so I generally just use one per playthrough and give him a Boots or two. Mages are obnoxious, but I generally play so as to OverClass by the end of the game and a Spartan with the Gradivus is obscene even against Marla and Hestia so it's not like they're really that bad for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quickpawmaud Posted May 2, 2019 Author Share Posted May 2, 2019 That is my plan with Forsyth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armchair General Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 Plus, the game doesn't have an plethora of skills and weapons that I need to read into is what making this game easier than the others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interdimensional Observer Posted May 3, 2019 Share Posted May 3, 2019 Their physical durability is good, but that is about it. The big issue is Dread Fighters (and Falcoknights when Bows aren't present) can have similar physical durability with a lot more of other things- Spd, Move, Res, and even Atk due to being able to actually double. A Steel Shield offers +5 Def and its Defensive Combat Art to provide another 5 Def, at the cost of a mere 2 Wt and 1 HP per Defensive use. If my Dread Fighter doesn't need that much Def, I can swap out the Steel Shield for a Zweihander/Brave Sword/Rapier for a really strong offense. The other issues of the Soldier/Knight/Baron line are: They might have high Atk, but being so slow they can rarely double, which greatly impedes their offense. Lances lack for powerful weapons beyond the lone Rhomphaia- whose good Combat Art- Dragonhaze, requires high Spd to make the most of- something Knights/Barons lack. The Trainee's Lance and Emperor's Lance are both DLC only, the best thing a Baron can normally get is a Steel Lance and its Tempest Lance CA- which is good, but not good enough. While Dread Fighters can compare with Barons on physical durability, Barons can't match DFs on magical durability. Barons use a Hexlock or Royal Shield (neither of which Team Celica naturally get), but they're still inferior to Dread Fighters here, who can use the same stuff or like for physical and still have their other leads. Witches are even capable of doubling Knights/Barons due to how sluggish they are if you don't boost their Spd. Enemy phase is great in SoV, but at the same time they toned down the potency of 1-2 range EP offense a bit due to 1-3/5 range Bows and 1-3 range Magic (and Hard gives a lot of Arcanists Mire). This makes Javelins if you tried running one of those, or later Gradivus, not as useful. And for Celica's group, there is no Warp, only the inferior (for moving Knights/Barons) Rescue in a land of terrain heavy maps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quickpawmaud Posted May 3, 2019 Author Share Posted May 3, 2019 If I could figure out how to like a post I would like your post. That is a very well constructed argument. I would never use knights on Celica's route though just because of the terrain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quickpawmaud Posted May 3, 2019 Author Share Posted May 3, 2019 I just had an idea is it worth making Kliff a dread fighter? Most people say to make him a mage, cavalier, or archer. He has high resistance though and if mages are super problematic he would be the ultimate mage killer right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclipse Posted May 3, 2019 Share Posted May 3, 2019 31 minutes ago, Quickpawmaud said: I just had an idea is it worth making Kliff a dread fighter? Most people say to make him a mage, cavalier, or archer. He has high resistance though and if mages are super problematic he would be the ultimate mage killer right? Do what you want. SoV isn't so difficult that people need to go down certain class routes lest they end up unusable. I don't care for armors in this game because I'm not fond of the lances in this game. I can excuse pegasus knights since I use them as mobile bait/fort blockers (this is how I recruited Delthea). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quickpawmaud Posted May 3, 2019 Author Share Posted May 3, 2019 I mainly give them shields anyway. I save the lances for cavaliers and pegasus knights. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor Hardin Posted May 3, 2019 Share Posted May 3, 2019 Armor Knights look awesome in Echoes: Shadows of Valentia! Unfortunately the remake only exacerbated their problems from the original, whilst removing some of their advantages. They are still perfectly usable though. 7 hours ago, Quickpawmaud said: They do seem harder to use without pair-ups to help them move around. If you're referring to Awakening, Armor Knights were terrible in that game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quickpawmaud Posted May 3, 2019 Author Share Posted May 3, 2019 (edited) I mean they were terrible in comparison to the overpowered galeforce shit but they were still the most powerful generals in fire emblem history as everyone was op in awakening. One of my favorite units ever was Kjelle I also liked the knights in fates too. I paired them with flyers to fly into the choke points right away and put mages behind them. Edited May 3, 2019 by Quickpawmaud Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor Hardin Posted May 3, 2019 Share Posted May 3, 2019 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Quickpawmaud said: I mean they were terrible in comparison to the overpowered galeforce shit but they were still the most powerful generals in fire emblem history as everyone was op in awakening. Completely and utterly false. Tier lists disagree with you as well as they all say General is one of the worst classes in Awakening. Not to mention, it doesn't even look nice or practical unlike very other version of the class, even their animations make them look bad. Edited May 3, 2019 by Emperor Hardin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quickpawmaud Posted May 3, 2019 Author Share Posted May 3, 2019 Whatever man pavise aegis generals were the best defensive units I know of. With rightful king and luna it is even better. In fates they had the skill to not get doubled which was great as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor Hardin Posted May 3, 2019 Share Posted May 3, 2019 3 minutes ago, Quickpawmaud said: Whatever man pavise aegis generals were the best defensive units I know of. With rightful king and luna it is even better. Paladins are better for defense in Awakening. Especially as Awakening reverted Generals to having terrible resistance again and made it so pavise worked better for non Generals anyhow.. Short version, Awakening Generals are some of the worst in the series rivaling Genealogy of the Holy War and TearRing Saga. Also not everyone in Awakening is overpowered like Donnel and Virion. 3 minutes ago, Quickpawmaud said: In fates they had the skill to not get doubled which was great as well. Fates Generals are one of the few version of the class that is actually good like Radiant Dawn and Vestaria Saga. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quickpawmaud Posted May 3, 2019 Author Share Posted May 3, 2019 (edited) Everyone was op in Awakening because of the second seals and skills letting you get insanely high stats and making growth rates not as important. Donnel had a poor class selection because they overlapped giving him fewer possible skills but his growths were amazing because of aptitude which is not that great when you can level infinitely. Edited May 3, 2019 by Quickpawmaud Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quickpawmaud Posted May 3, 2019 Author Share Posted May 3, 2019 (edited) Sorcerer was the best class because of nosferatu. Which neither Virion nor Donnel have access to. Edited May 3, 2019 by Quickpawmaud Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor Hardin Posted May 3, 2019 Share Posted May 3, 2019 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Quickpawmaud said: Everyone was op in fates because of the second seals and skills letting you get insanely high stats and making growth rates not as important. Donnel had a poor class selection because they overlapped giving him fewer possible skills but his growths were amazing because of aptitude which is not that great when you can level infinitely. There are low tier characters in Fates, especially in conquest. Anyhow Echoes: SOV actually nerfed the soldier line compared to the original. In the original: * Warp had unlimited range. * Speed Ring gave 5 movement. * Gradivus and Sol dealt more damage decreased while weighing much less then in SOV. * Valbar had 10% more speed growth. * Most Characters having low strength and defense growth, thus giving a more reason for the soldier line. Edited May 3, 2019 by Emperor Hardin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quickpawmaud Posted May 3, 2019 Author Share Posted May 3, 2019 (edited) I could see them being much better with the 5 movement. Have yet to get the rare weapons so not sure about those. Meant awakening sorry. Edited May 3, 2019 by Quickpawmaud Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor Hardin Posted May 3, 2019 Share Posted May 3, 2019 (edited) 33 minutes ago, Quickpawmaud said: I could see them being much better with the 5 movement. Have yet to get the rare weapons so not sure about those. The ring didn't give them 5 movement so much as turn their 4 movement into 7 movement. Its interesting to note that in the NES and SNES version of Shadow Dragon, just like in Gaiden, Generals and knights had the same movement, unlike the other advanced classes. The DS version made it so Armor Knight gained +1 movement upon promotion just like in all later games, significantly improving the class. The Soldier line never gaining movement to the point that Baron is 3 movement behind Dread Fighter is a major of failing Echoes: SOV, I feel. Given them a useful skill like the original pavise would've helped a lot too, especially as the remake added the ridiculous Apotrope skill to the class. EDIT: My mistake, make that 9 movement. Edited May 3, 2019 by Emperor Hardin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quickpawmaud Posted May 3, 2019 Author Share Posted May 3, 2019 It just seems like generals will always be a niche class that is only good in certain areas. They better give generals something in 3 houses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quickpawmaud Posted May 3, 2019 Author Share Posted May 3, 2019 (edited) 24 minutes ago, Emperor Hardin said: Paladins are better for defense in Awakening. Especially as Awakening reverted Generals to having terrible resistance again and made it so pavise worked better for non Generals anyhow.. Short version, Awakening Generals are some of the worst in the series rivaling Genealogy of the Holy War and TearRing Saga. Also not everyone in Awakening is overpowered like Donnel and Virion. Fates Generals are one of the few version of the class that is actually good like Radiant Dawn and Vestaria Saga. I never really used Virion much what is even good about him? I know he has archer and like wyvern rider or something. Edited May 3, 2019 by Quickpawmaud Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclipse Posted May 3, 2019 Share Posted May 3, 2019 10 minutes ago, Quickpawmaud said: It just seems like generals will always be a niche class that is only good in certain areas. They better give generals something in 3 houses. Bingo. If you want decent generals, the closest you'll get are early-mid New Mystery chapters and Radiant Dawn (Meg nonwithstanding). Also, stop double-posting (it's in the rules, read 'em). I'd rather not warn people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Mir Posted May 3, 2019 Share Posted May 3, 2019 (edited) 15 minutes ago, Quickpawmaud said: I never really used Virion much what is even good about him? I know he has archer and like wyvern rider or something. I think he means that Virion doesn't really have much of anything going for him. 38 minutes ago, Emperor Hardin said: Awakening Generals are some of the worst in the series rivaling Genealogy of the Holy War and TearRing Saga. Still better than Binding Blade Generals - the armors in that game have it as bad, if not worse than in Genealogy, largely thanks to said game (also) being Horse Emblem. Edited May 3, 2019 by Shadow Mir Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quickpawmaud Posted May 3, 2019 Author Share Posted May 3, 2019 Oh ok I guess I took the opposite to what he meant on accident. That makes more sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor Hardin Posted May 3, 2019 Share Posted May 3, 2019 22 minutes ago, Quickpawmaud said: It just seems like generals will always be a niche class that is only good in certain areas. They better give generals something in 3 houses. Vestaria Saga by the creator of Fire Emblem gained made it so the playable Armor Knights(who promoted from Soldier, by the way) had a skill so adjacent units gained defense and resistance when they were next to the Armored unit. It worked very well and the Armor Knight characters are in high tier, though not the very, very top. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quickpawmaud Posted May 3, 2019 Author Share Posted May 3, 2019 https://store.steampowered.com/app/694770/Vestaria_Saga/ Is this it? I have never heard of it sounds interesting though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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