Three Houses' Announced Return of FE4's "Holy Bloodlines"

[BriForABri]

Fire Emblem: Genealogy of the Holy War is celebrating it's 23rd birthday this year. But based on some of the latest information about the anticipated Fire Emblem: Three Houses, it would seem that Intelligent Systems has decided to give a big present to the FANS of FE4 instead. Recently, it was announced that the "Holy Bloodlines" system from the Jugdral Saga would make its return in Three Houses.

As a huge fan of FE4, I am incredibly excited that Intelligent Systems decided to bring back this huge gameplay and story aspect that, in my opinion, made Genealogy of Holy War stand out among the other entries in the FE series. A while back, I wrote an article about this very possibility. I wrote about my own feelings and praise for the "Holy Bloodlines" system while discussing how it could greatly improve the story and gameplay of future Fire Emblem games. Along with this, I also asked for the opinions and thoughts of other members. How do feel about Genealogy of Holy War's "Holy Bloodlines" system? Would you like to see it replicated? Needless to say, the responses I received were very mixed. There were plenty who shared my sentiments and praise of the system, but there were also plenty who were on the opposite spectrum. Despite my love for the system, I completely understand the arguments presented by the other members. The "Holy Bloodlines" system creates an expansive and very complex network of characters; many of which are bonded by either blood or friendship. It creates a large network that encourages character development and separate goals not related to the central plot. According to some members, this expansive story network is simply too large and complex. Despite my love for this expansive story, I do understand the argument presented. While the gameplay of the FE series and the difficulty of some FE games is what primarily keeps me interested, the story, characters, and character development itself are incredibly interesting to me. In my opinion, FE4 checks off all of these requirements and, as a result, it is my favorite installment in the series.

While I believe the reasons for disliking the "Holy Bloodlines" are reasonable, I believe that Fire Emblem: Three Houses can do nothing but benefit from this implementation. My beliefs are slightly similar to why I believe the system worked so well in Fire Emblem: Genealogy of the Holy War. First of all, I think it is clear that the gameplay will most likely receive the most attention from this new implementation. I am sure that there will be key story aspects related to the "Holy Bloodlines," but Three Houses is not Genealogy of the Holy War. FE4's story is almost entirely centered the "Holy Bloodlines." I feel like Intelligent Systems wants to create an entirely new story with Three Houses while still including some of their more interesting story elements from previous entries in the series. I have a feeling that the gameplay will have some similarities to FE4. For example, I STRONGLY hope that the "Holy Weapons" feature makes a return as well! I loved FE4's "Crusader Weapons" and I hope the Intelligent Systems takes the time to create all-new weapons for the characters with "Major Holy Blood," if you will. Similar to this, I would LOVE to see characters with "Major Holy Blood" be able to pass on their ability to wield special weapons to their children, like in FE4. Although, dissimilar to FE4, I hope Three Houses has a larger selection of characters for the "Holy Bloodlines" characters to marry. In FE4, most of the "Major Holy Blood" characters are already married to someone (i.e. Sigurd, Dierdre, Quan, Merricle, etc.), thus limiting the player's choice for role-playing and individual ways to play. The only characters with "Major Holy Blood" that can marry partners hand-selected by the player and then have their own special weapons passed on to the other half of the game are Lewyn (his Forseti tome), Claud (his Valkyrie Staff), and Brigid (her Yewfelle bow). The other "Major Holy Blood" characters are already married or will be married to characters the DEVELOPER chose. Now that FE games allow for such diversity in terms of character relationships, Three Houses could provide a form of strategy in terms of passing on this "Holy Blood." You could marry characters who possess this gift to other characters you enjoy, or to characters you think are best stat-wise. It almost works in a similar way to the Dragon Veins in Fire Emblem: Fates. These are all predictions and hopes, of course, but I hope Intelligent Systems utilizes the "Holy Bloodlines" system in a manner that makes the gameplay and story of Fire Emblem: Three Houses incredible!

What are your own thoughts and opinions about this latest information from Intelligent Systems? Are you excited for the new changes and implementations? I would love to hear what everyone else has to say!

[Slumber]

With some of the leaks(Supposing they're real. Probably not.) and the inclusion of a Genealogy remix in Ultimate, it makes me think IS is probably getting started on an FE4 remake behind the scenes.

[coldhand25]

I do believe these things might lead to an FE4 remake in the near future. But I'm afraid it's only an idea yet, and they will probably wait and see what kind of reception TH gets. According to the leaks, it is going to have a darker than usual atmosphere, which can get a backlash from (mainly) fans of the newer titles, but is not alien to the Jugdral games, which makes me believe, while TH is a full, non-experimental game, it actually is a test, if you will, to see how players today would react to it. And this is perfectly fine by me. If they see people don't like death, or endings which are not happy for all, then they probably wouldn't make a Genealogy remake.

As for Holy Bloodlines in FE16, we only know of a handful of characters with Major, and it seems most of the characters have Minor Holy Blood. I'm not sure about passing down anything, as we only know from leaks that there might be a time skip, and to make a complete replica of the original Holy Bloodline system they will have to have Gen2 in it, about which we have no information yet. Right now, to me it only seems like a fun addition to the game, so that everyone can be a bit different. But I sure hope we will learn even more about it soon.

[Von Ithipathachai]

Sorry, but I'm gonna have to be that guy and say I'm not very happy about a Holy Blood system returning.  I just don't like the idea of characters without it getting unfairly shafted.

[BrightBow]

Thing is, holy blood was only interesting in regards to world building and inheritance. And child units were only interesting because it was tied to a decade-long conflict.

If this game has holy blood, then this merely means child units will be forced into this game yet again, without any of the context that made them feel like a part of a greater whole back on the Super Famicom.

[Gregster101]

Tbh, with Three Houses seemingly taking some cues from FE4, I kind of hope this means that FE4 will be the next Echoes styled remake after IS is finished with Three Houses.

[BrightBow]

And I hope they keep their claws far away from that game, seeing how unlike the first three games, Holy War's controls just fine. So it's not gonna be an upgrade. Thracia 776 is the only game left that has a chance to turn out better in a remake.

Of course that hope is very much futile. They'll most certainly try and get their money's worth out their new engine.

Edited May 16, 2019 by BrightBow

[Reality]

I dislike the idea.

I think the Fire Emblem benefits from readability.. It's preferable to know a unit's stats on the first screen you check them. Findinout that they don't really have 2 res but have 2+10 res due to holy blood and have to remember the bonus is annoying (worse if it's used for growths again and can't even be viewed in-game). 

I also find it way extraneous to the main story and distracting. 

I'm not particularly interested in either Holy weapons or even standard unique weapons because I feel they push FE in a hero-centric direction instead of a strategic direction which I feel weakens it. I would prefer a wider range and some specials on "generic tradable weapons" instead of a very large  unique weapon system... For me it's kind of incidental what the "requirements for the use of unique weapons" are, they are still a problem.

As for the strategicness of choosing the pairings and heir...I understand it's supposed to add replay value but for me it's less successful in doing so than a straight reclassing option - those are more readble, and have immediate impact on repeat playthroughs, especially since you will be playing 2nd+ playthtoughs at a faster pace (and most 2nd gen charathers imply starting with growths all over again etc). 

[DragonFlames]

22 minutes ago, Von Ithipathachai said:

Sorry, but I'm gonna have to be that guy and say I'm not very happy about a Holy Blood system returning.  I just don't like the idea of characters without it getting unfairly shafted.

Yup, I can already see the "discussions" now. "Does this character have Holy Blood? No? Put 'em in the trash! Also, anyone who likes them and uses them seriously is a fIlThY cAsUaL, doesn't know anything about Fire Emblem and shouldn't be playing this game anyway."

I also predict heavy bias towards the characters that do have it in terms of story-telling (like Fates), while those that don't are left being the ones to kiss the ground they walk on while having no other purpose otherwise. My enthusiasm for this game is dwindling by the minute. At least that's 300+ Euros I'll save, I guess...

[BrightBow]

A unit without holy blood isn't automatically bad. All it does it modify growths and give special abilities. And they can set growth rates to whatever they like. It's why Ethlyn despite having holy blood has growths on the level of Alec and Noish. All her holy blood does is to lift her growths to their level. And special abilities are given by skills too.

Holy blood by itself doesn't do anything that isn't already covered by other mechanics. It's only with inheritance that they start to matter.

Edited May 16, 2019 by BrightBow

[Shadow Mir]

Frankly, I don't really think it means much of anything. And I think it's much too early to start speculating.

19 minutes ago, BrightBow said:

And I hope they keep their claws far away from that game, seeing how unlike the first three games, Holy War's controls just fine. So it's not gonna be an upgrade. Thracia 776 is the only game left that has a chance to turn out better in a remake.

Of course that hope is very much futile. They'll most certainly try and get their money's worth out their new engine.

You would insist Holy War is fine as is despite the fact it's slow, clunky, and borderline unplayable???

Edited May 16, 2019 by Shadow Mir

[BrightBow]

5 minutes ago, Shadow Mir said:

Even though it's slow, clunky, and borderline unplayable???

Except it's none of these things? Most certainly not in a way that would be changed by a remake. Unless you expect them to complete change the maps to be super small and throw out the arena. Which aren't the kind of changes they have done in any of the previous remakes. They always left the maps as is. Even in Echoes, despite Gaiden having a huge issue with reusing maps due to limited memory.

Edited May 16, 2019 by BrightBow

[Lightcosmo]

40 minutes ago, Von Ithipathachai said:

Sorry, but I'm gonna have to be that guy and say I'm not very happy about a Holy Blood system returning.  I just don't like the idea of characters without it getting unfairly shafted.

Fire Emblem has always been this way. Unit growths? Certainly not balanced. Prf weapons? Don't see that being fair either. Class caps/growths? Same problem. Skills? Don't get me started on this. And of course things like Move, etc are an issue. Weapon balance isn't really a thing either. Not really fair to judge one when all of them are guilty of this. Sure they can't balance it, that doesn't mean it can't be done right. The system isn't the issue, their balance is.

Edited May 16, 2019 by lightcosmo

[Von Ithipathachai]

3 minutes ago, BrightBow said:

Except it's none of these things?

If not, Mir and I are obviously just dumb.  You say FE4 isn't slow and clunky, but it sure felt that way to us.

But anyway, staying on topic, I will admit there are chances that the Crest system won't be completely identical to the Holy Blood system.  Mir's probably right in that we need to wait and see more of it in action.

[Shadow Mir]

5 minutes ago, BrightBow said:

Except it's none of these things? Most certainly not in a way that would be changed by a remake. Unless you expect them to complete change the maps to be super small and throw out the arena. Which aren't the kind of changes they have done in any of the previous remakes. They always left the maps as is. Even in Echoes, despite Gaiden having a huge issue with reusing maps due to limited memory.

I would definitely argue it being slow and clunky, what with the enemy phases being the slowest thing ever to the point where I'd have to employ a speed up button for things to progress at an acceptable speed. A lot of its mechanics ruin its playability, too.

[BrightBow]

5 minutes ago, Shadow Mir said:

I would definitely argue it being slow and clunky, what with the enemy phases being the slowest thing ever to the point where I'd have to employ a speed up button for things to progress at an acceptable speed. A lot of its mechanics ruin its playability, too.

There is a setting to increase enemy movement speed. I'm also not sure what mechanics you would expect IS to actually change, given their trackrecord in regards to remakes.

Edited May 16, 2019 by BrightBow

[Lightcosmo]

7 minutes ago, Shadow Mir said:

I would definitely argue it being slow and clunky, what with the enemy phases being the slowest thing ever to the point where I'd have to employ a speed up button for things to progress at an acceptable speed. A lot of its mechanics ruin its playability, too.

I would argue this about PoR, does that make it terrible? hardly, it's just not the same as everything else, oh well. Mechanically, the game is fine, it's just not for you, nothing wrong with that. Can't expect to like every FE game out there. Your opinion is just that, no need to be rude to everyone that starts a topic about it. Anyway, as for the topic, I think it would be a good idea, but in the wrong game. Probably best to save that idea if you ask me.

Edited May 16, 2019 by lightcosmo

[Rose482]

25 minutes ago, DragonFlames said:

Yup, I can already see the "discussions" now. "Does this character have Holy Blood? No? Put 'em in the trash! Also, anyone who likes them and uses them seriously is a fIlThY cAsUaL, doesn't know anything about Fire Emblem and shouldn't be playing this game anyway."

 

You see....while I agree with you, and I can totally see people favor units with "Holy Blood" or whatever it's called in this game, but at the same time...I see this game being a lot more balanced than how things were in FE4, which makes me happy really. And also it for sure would add some story elements to the FE16 plot, which I can see myself liking.

 

[Shadow Mir]

14 minutes ago, BrightBow said:

There is a setting to increase enemy movement speed. I'm also not sure what mechanics you would expect IS to actually change, given their trackrecord in regards to remakes.

At the very least, I'd expect a skip enemy phase function. considering that every game since SD had it.

12 minutes ago, lightcosmo said:

I would argue this about PoR, does that make it terrible? hardly, it's just not the same as everything else, oh well. Mechanically, the game is fine, it's just not for you, nothing wrong with that. Can't expect to like every FE game out there. Your opinion is just that, no need to be rude to everyone that starts a topic about it. Anyway, as for the topic, I think it would be a good idea, but in the wrong game. Probably best to save that idea if you ask me.

Except PoR never had it take F.O.R.E.V.E.R. for me to get my turn back come enemy phase. And the only other instance of enemy phases taking particularly long wasn't even that offensive since it was in like a few maps at most, as opposed to being a problem in literally the whole goddamn game.

Edited May 16, 2019 by Shadow Mir

[Lightcosmo]

6 minutes ago, Shadow Mir said:

At the very least, I'd expect a skip enemy phase function. considering that every game since SD had it.

Except PoR never had it take F.O.R.E.V.E.R. for me to get my turn back come enemy phase. And the only other instance of enemy phases talking particularly long wasn't even that offensive since it was in like a few maps at most, as opposed to being a problem in literally the whole goddamn game.

Maybe to you, but to me it did. So by your logic, it's therefor an awful game that never deserves a chance. Also, you said slow and clunky, which I think it is. Other FE games do have flaws, you just try to justify them by hating FE4's more. Like I said, since I don't like it should be changed, that is what your saying, after all. Is my opinion less valuable then yours?

Edited May 16, 2019 by lightcosmo

[BrightBow]

14 minutes ago, Shadow Mir said:

At the very least, I'd expect a skip enemy phase function. considering that every game since SD had it.

It was a good little addition, sure. But I really wouldn't say that any turn-based game without such a feature is "slow, clunky, and borderline unplayable".

Edited May 16, 2019 by BrightBow

[DragonFlames]

3 minutes ago, Rose482 said:

You see....while I agree with you, and I can totally see people favor units with "Holy Blood" or whatever it's called in this game, but at the same time...I see this game being a lot more balanced than how things were in FE4, which makes me happy really. And also it for sure would add some story elements to the FE16 plot, which I can see myself liking.

Hopefully this turns out to be true and the added plot elements aren't just "Holy Blood = anything this character says and does is infallible and they are always right and good". Hopefully, the people who look at this with less cynical eyes than I do, like you, turn out to be right in the end. I'd love to be proven wrong on these things. I want this game to be good. It's the Switch's last chance to prove itself worthy of my money. Every other game I'm interested in is on a console I already have, leaving Three Houses as the only game that could incentivize me to get one. And for me to pay up 300+ Euros for a console (which doesn't even include necessary peripherals), as a university student with rent and student loans to think about, that's gonna take a VERY good game.

For now, I can see multiple red flags (with my personal biggest getting bigger and ever-more likely to be actually present in the game by the second) in the distance, but, as Shadow Mir said, we don't know anything for sure yet. First impressions are important, though. And if something doesn't make a good first impression, it's not going to look good in the future, either. Though that may be just me.

[Gregster101]

1 hour ago, BrightBow said:

And I hope they keep their claws far away from that game, seeing how unlike the first three games, Holy War's controls just fine. So it's not gonna be an upgrade. Thracia 776 is the only game left that has a chance to turn out better in a remake.

Of course that hope is very much futile. They'll most certainly try and get their money's worth out their new engine.

Don't you at least want them to remake it and localize it so people who are interested in it can play it without having to resort to emulation?

[BrightBow]

Just now, Gregster101 said:

Don't you at least want them to remake it and localize it so people who are interested in it can play it without having to resort to emulation?

Of course I want to. I just don't see the current IS doing that game any justice.

[coldhand25]

1 hour ago, BrightBow said:

Of course I want to. I just don't see the current IS doing that game any justice.

I don't see how they could mess it up so bad. If they were to do the same what they did with SoV, the game would only benefit from it. Technically they need even less to do, as Genealogy already has a whole, well-written story. They could keep the maps from the original, throw in new models, arts, sprites, add some voice-acting and animated cut-scenes, make the animations less clunky, make the overall gameplay a little-bit faster, and there it is. I would be perfectly fine with it. Unless they change and screw up the story.