Jump to content

Special Heroes Appear: Bridal Belonging (May 21 ~)


Coolmanio
 Share

Recommended Posts

3 minutes ago, Etrurian emperor said:

If we take that stance to its logical conclusion then it wouldn't be favorable to Tellius.

I mean, shouldn't we just make Elise the next flying healer? More people know of and like Elise in comparison to Elincia after all.

If we take popularity and how known a character is then we might as well make alts exclusive to the Fates Royals and Lucina.

Tellius and Jugdral in the same boat as lesser known or lesser sold games. A Tellius fan going on  about how Jugdral doesn't deserve reps for not being as well known is inherently hypocritical.

Except Elise isn't normally a flying healer while Elincia is. We're talking about flying healers that are actually flying healers in their base game.

I never said Jugdral didn't deserve any reps! Nor did I say that Tellius deserves more. All I'm saying is that I feel Elincia has the advantage over this Erinys character as a potential normal pool flying healer for being from an internationally released game and being a main character. Nothing to do with which game deserves more reps.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 359
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

1 hour ago, Vince777 said:

Bow cavs are very rare and she was a top 25 unit in CYL3. 

That second part is irrelevant given that she only got there because of an annoying Youtuber. Her post-CYL1 results are effectively useless for gauging her popularity as a result.

Going off of CYL1, she's notably less popular than her husband and isn't drastically more popular than either Sigrun or Tanith.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 hours ago, Armagon said:

The difference is that people actually talk about Titania and Soren (Soren especially).

That didn't stop them from adding Rebecca on its first year of release instead of Marcus or Oswin, who are arguably more important/popular.

@Interdimensional Observer Idk, IS is mostly dumb, add to that that appealing to all players' tastes is difficult, but overall I think they're trying to do their best :Nino:. They can't boost each title's cast uniformly because:

1. Favorites may be eventually missed or delayed to be added

2. At first glance you'll have every game's lords + retainers and one or two villains

3. They need to adapt to each year's events to push new releases to higher levels. I think this is the most important part, the consecutive Valentian banners and TT were amazing, imo, and the Warrior's special maps added some good bases for nowadays content. Next semestre will be plagued of Three Houses content, probably banners of Byleth and the nobles, some TT, GHB, Forging Bonds and then banners for each House.

For this banner I'll go blue->colorless->red crossing fingers for Pent, all my orbs will go for this banner, I'm sick of stupid Legendary Banners that I get screwed with up to 10 and 12 pity rate.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Anacybele said:

...Who?

Well, regardless of who she is, I can't agree. Elincia is more well known and important. Many people would probably have the same reaction to this Erinys as I did since from your statement here, she's from a Japan-only game, whereas they'd know who Elincia is.

Regardless of the fact that I agree Elincia is more likely than Fury as the first regular flying healer because of popularity, I find it pretty heartless to just tell to someone's face that their faves are not popular enough to be picked. You were pretty brutal with that cold "who?" as the first sentence.

Especially considering that we just got proof that popularity isn't everything, or Tanith and Sigrun wouldn't be here over Jill and Marcia.

 

And I would like to remind you that when you argued that Elincia should have gotten an alt before Micaiah, and later that she deserves a legendary one before her, people brought to your attention that Micaiah is more popular and you didn't like it at all. So you know that it hurts when this argument is used against you.

 

 

I just read your latest reply, and yes it seems we agree, the issue was entirely "how you said it" rather than "what you said". You should be more careful about how you write what you mean.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, GrandeRampel said:

Regardless of the fact that I agree Elincia is more likely than Fury as the first regular flying healer because of popularity, I find it pretty heartless to just tell to someone's face that their faves are not popular enough to be picked. You were pretty brutal with that cold "who?" as the first sentence.

I'm not arguing popularity though, I'm arguing about how many people know of her and her significance in her games. And how the hell is "...who?" a brutal cold thing to say?

10 minutes ago, GrandeRampel said:

And I would like to remind you that when you argued that Elincia should have gotten an alt before Micaiah, and later that she deserves a legendary one before her, people brought to your attention that Micaiah is more popular and you didn't like it at all. So you know that it hurts when this argument is used against you.

Again, I was never arguing popularity in this case even though Elincia probably is more popular than Erinys. And I think Elincia deserves a legendary before Micaiah because of her significance and potentially more unique unit type anyway, not really because of any popularity. Never did understand why Micaiah is liked more though. Micaiah is so badly written imo, and I think Elincia is prettier as well as being much better written (especially in RD). But that's me.

Edited by Anacybele
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well it is a bit of a consolation that Judgral characters seem to be well accepted regarding heroes. Even if a bit meme Reinhardt got his position, also Seliph and Julia are not too rare. Sadly I also have given a bit up about Oifey being released for now. Still got a bit hope for a good banner with Altena... 

Still a bit bummed that Deirdre and Sigurd did not make it for this banner, but its still overall a nice one.

This discussion kind of reminds of Reina not being the first regular flying archer. While I get the reasons I like Reina and while Fates was so overbearing some fate characters still got shoved behind. 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

3 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

...What is to be expected? There is little time for pregnancy once Gen 1 is over. You need the 2nd Gen because the 1st ceases to exist, the 2nd wouldn't have fought if the 1st Gen still could have. This isn't true of Awakening or Fates, where the 2nd Gen was never needed barring Lucina.

Isn't that the definition of plot convenience though? BTW I was mostly being sarcastic as I can't judge FE4 just yet. But it does seem like hypocrisy when certain hardcore fans of Jugdral would bash RD, Fates, among others for plot convenience. Naruto war arc spoilers below.

Spoiler

You could argue that the war arc in Naruto had a necessity to conveniently add Kabuto and his edo army to the fray to make a war possible. Still doesn't stop the war arc from being bashed for being poorly conceived to begin with. 

And how would Awakening be okay with just Lucina as the 2nd gen? Is she going to be able to survive by herself in a post apocalyptic world? I doubt she's that powerful. 

Also, nothing stopping FE4 from adding other characters not directly affiliated with the gen 1 to the army. Much like how Binding Blade does it. 

Quote

In addition, Kaga once explicitly stated that what you see on the map in FE4 isn't what actually is. There are many "invisible" grunts fighting alongside you and against you, FE4 as Holy Sword Elm Kaiser was going to originally have the squads idea Three Houses is now reviving. With this in mind, you could I guess canonically see each female as not doing as much battle as they would if things were smaller, like Part 4 RD and Ena or Louise in FE7, where what you see is largely what actually is.

But if the females do less after getting pregnant, their combat abilities should get a nerf when in reality they don't in game-play or the story. So this is just baseless speculation. 

Quote

The "Gen 2" part applied to all three of those listed games. Since whilst it cannot be argued that Fates is not the best represented, its 2nd Gen isn't so well covered, and I was being kind towards it.

Well in that case, I think we need Goldoa representation from Tellius as it currently has zero. You can't get worse than that. 

3 hours ago, GrandeRampel said:

Screw the branded and losing powers bullsh*t!

Don't you screw Micaiah. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think I might spend Orbs on BB!Fjorm. I have like 500+ Orbs so hopefully I can get her.

BB!Louise looks amazing. She is like totally my type. She is also a pony archer! I think I will still be saving my Grails though. I was planning to spend them on RR!Loki but her Atk is bit low for my liking. I think I will just keep saving Grails until they release another flying archer.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The key to Isolation is that you use it on the dancer, and another enemy with Restore or Harsh Command+ can't remove it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Anacybele said:

I'm not arguing popularity though, I'm arguing about how many people know of her and her significance in her games. And how the hell is "...who?" a brutal cold thing to say?

Again, I was never arguing popularity in this case even though Elincia probably is more popular than Erinys. And I think Elincia deserves a legendary before Micaiah because of her significance and potentially more unique unit type anyway, not really because of any popularity. Never did understand why Micaiah is liked more though. Micaiah is so badly written imo, and I think Elincia is prettier as well as being much better written (especially in RD). But that's me.

The problem with your argument is that with Elincia Vs. Erinys you were saying Elincia should come first because she’s more well known and therefore more popular, but for Elincia Vs. Micaiah you were saying Elincia should be first because of seniority and importance (which is heavily debatable). You’re essentially applying a double standard so your character can “win” on both scenarios. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Anacybele said:

I'm not arguing popularity though, I'm arguing about how many people know of her and her significance in her games. And how the hell is "...who?" a brutal cold thing to say?

When you are talking about a character you like and someone goes "I'm sorry, but literally who" it can break your heart a little. It's the reason people who say they don't like the new banner because they don't know the characters get downvoted into oblivion on reddit. Which I think it's an exaggerated reaction, but that's the reason.

 

And now that I think about it... how can you argue about the significance of a character from a game you didn't play? For all you know Fury could have had a bigger role in Genealogy than what Elincia has in Radiant Dawn.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 minutes ago, Jave said:

The problem with your argument is that with Elincia Vs. Erinys you were saying Elincia should come first because she’s more well known and therefore more popular, but for Elincia Vs. Micaiah you were saying Elincia should be first because of seniority and importance (which is heavily debatable). You’re essentially applying a double standard so your character can “win” on both scenarios. 

No, I am not. Being well known is not the same as being popular. I'm well known on this forum, but I don't think anyone, including myself, would say I'm popular. And I don't want to be anyway. It's that hatred of attention thing. I don't want to deal with that pressure.

Elincia over Erinys because the former is more well known, important, and significant in her game(s)

Elincia over Micaiah because the former is more important and significant in her game(s).

No real difference here other than Elincia and Micaiah being equally as well known (Though I don't know how. Micaiah has had no real exposure to fans beyond RD, some DLC in Awakening, and Heroes, whereas Elincia has had PoR and Smash trophies as well as RD, Awakening DLC, and Heroes appearances).

There's no debate over who is more important between Elincia and Micaiah. It's very clearly the former when she has major roles in two games as opposed to Micaiah's single role in RD and she later gets overshadowed by Ike and Yune too.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

There's no debate over who is more important between Elincia and Micaiah. It's very clearly the former when she has major roles in two games as opposed to Micaiah's single role in RD and she later gets overshadowed by Ike and Yune too.

I strongly disagree, not only with the premise but with there being no debate.  Elincia is very important in PoR, yes.  But Micaiah is arguably far more important in RD, being a protagonist and leading the army herself (unlike Ike leading Elincia's army in PoR- the game makes a point that Ike overshadows Elincia to some degree).  She has part 1 all to herself as the leader, Elincia gets a portion of part 2 (split between focus on Elincia/Geoffrey/Lucia), Micaiah gets more of part 3 than Elincia does, and she's Yune's vessel in part 4, where Elincia doesn't get much at all.

(I am biased, just as you are- I strongly prefer Micaiah to Elincia, for reasons that aren't relevant to their game importance.  However, that doesn't change the fact there is still debatable ground.)

Edited by Venmi
Adjustment to third sentence
Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, Venmi said:

I strongly disagree, not only with the premise but with there being no debate.  Elincia is very important in PoR, yes.  But Micaiah is arguably far more important in RD, being a protagonist and leading the army herself.  She has part 1 all to herself as the leader, Elincia gets a portion of part 2 (split between focus on Elincia/Geoffrey/Lucia), Micaiah gets more of part 3 than Elincia does, and she's Yune's vessel in part 4, where Elincia doesn't get much at all.

(I am biased, just as you are- I strongly prefer Micaiah to Elincia, for reasons that aren't relevant to their game importance.  However, that doesn't change the fact there is still debatable ground.)

Micaiah and Elincia's importance in RD is about equal, actually. Micaiah might have slightly more due to having more chapters to be used in, but you also can't ignore Elincia's role in PoR. That combined with her major role in RD makes her more important to the Tellius saga overall. I'm not sure how anyone can disagree with this, there is definitely no real debate. Remember, I'm not talking about just RD, I'm talking about both games. Oh yeah, and being Yune's vessel lessens Micaiah's importance because these are Yune's dialogue lines and appearances, Micaiah's body is just how she communicates. Micaiah herself has effectively been removed from the scenario.

I have a little bias since I strongly dislike Micaiah and love Elincia, but I'm not going to let that completely cloud my judgement.

Edited by Anacybele
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Anacybele said:

Micaiah and Elincia's importance in RD is about equal, actually. Micaiah might have slightly more due to having more chapters to be used in, but you also can't ignore Elincia's role in PoR. That combined with her major role in RD makes her more important to the Tellius saga overall. I'm not sure how anyone can disagree with this. Remember, I'm not talking about just RD, I'm talking about both games.

I have a little bias since I hate Micaiah and love Elincia, but I'm not going to let that completely cloud my judgement.

I'd still argue the importance still isn't equal in RD, since Micaiah plays a larger role in part 3 (as antagonist there, but still important) and part 4 (an army leader like Elincia and the vessel for Yune).  Then you have parts 1 and 2, which are either equal important or heavier importance on part 1 (especially for the broader Tellius story).  I'd conclude Micaiah is more important in RD overall based on these.

When you include PoR for the full picture, I'd argue Elincia is largely a figurehead until towards the end, when she slowly takes more control from Ike.  Important, yes, but I'm not sure it balances out when summed with Micaiah's much greater role in RD to make Elincia definitively more important overall.

I think my overall point is that there is still plenty of room for debate.  I disagree with you, and there is evidence for both of our positions.  (I have a pet peeve with people concluding there's no room for debate which goes far beyond these forums, which is the main reason I entered the debate.  And to defend Micaiah).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, Venmi said:

I'd still argue the importance still isn't equal in RD, since Micaiah plays a larger role in part 3 (as antagonist there, but still important) and part 4 (an army leader like Elincia and the vessel for Yune).  Then you have parts 1 and 2, which are either equal important or heavier importance on part 1 (especially for the broader Tellius story).  I'd conclude Micaiah is more important in RD overall based on these.

Like I said, you can't count being a vessel for Yune when that really removes Micaiah from the scene. Yune is talking for her through her body. Micaiah is doing nothing but being a way for Yune to talk to the others. Yune is in these scenes, not Micaiah.

5 minutes ago, Venmi said:

When you include PoR for the full picture, I'd argue Elincia is largely a figurehead until towards the end, when she slowly takes more control from Ike.  Important, yes, but I'm not sure it balances out when summed with Micaiah's much greater role in RD to make Elincia definitively more important overall.

She still appears in many significant scenes, and literally even drives the plot, even if she isn't actually playable until late. I think it balances out.

5 minutes ago, Venmi said:

I think my overall point is that there is still plenty of room for debate.  I disagree with you, and there is evidence for both of our positions.  (I have a pet peeve with people concluding there's no room for debate which goes far beyond these forums, which is the main reason I entered the debate.  And to defend Micaiah).

Well, then we just agree to disagree. And I defend Elincia and try to promote why she deserves more love than she gets.

Edited by Anacybele
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

Like I said, you can't count being a vessel for Yune when that really removes Micaiah from the scene. Yune is talking for her through her body. Micaiah is doing nothing but being a way for Yune to talk to the others.

I'd argue you can count it, since she still does things as Micaiah (leading her army, as Elincia does) and Yune wouldn't be there if not for her.  But yes, I'm fine with agreeing to disagree- like I said, my main point was to show that there is still plenty of room for debate.  I'm doing the same for Micaiah that you do for Elincia- arguing that she deserves more love than she gets. 

And by the way, I'd love a flying staff Elincia alt at some point :)  I still like Elincia.

Edited by Venmi
Forgot the word "staff"
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Venmi said:

I'd argue you can count it, since she still does things as Micaiah (leading her army, as Elincia does) and Yune wouldn't be there if not for her.  But yes, I'm fine with agreeing to disagree- like I said, my main point was to show that there is still plenty of room for debate.  I'm doing the same for Micaiah that you do for Elincia- arguing that she deserves more love than she gets.

Micaiah gets plenty of love these days though. Elincia is sadly left in the dust a lot despite that she's a beautifully designed and written character. I feel like the main thing hurting her is the lack of availability of her games to the fanbase, so they don't know her that well. But that brings me to why I'm not sure how Micaiah gets the love she does because she's from one of the same games and has had LESS exposure to fans overall. Those people who haven't played Tellius wouldn't know her well either. I'm thankful IS still treats her well though, with how they gave her Awakening DLC and a seasonal Heroes alt, even if the fanbase doesn't.

4 minutes ago, Venmi said:

And by the way, I'd love a flying Elincia alt at some point :)  I still like Elincia.

Nice to know! And even though I think Elincia is far prettier than Micaiah, that doesn't mean I think Micaiah is ugly, I think she has a nice design, in fact. I also do think Micaiah is still significant enough to get a legendary version. She does count as a lord.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I honestly don't think we'll see a Staff!Elincia in the normal pool, not unless they do a Princess alt of her which, to me, is somewhat redundant as we have her promoted Queen self as is, or as a seasonal. If they do a Legendary version of her, I have no doubt she'd either be a staff flier, or a power crept version of herself, as we've seen happen to Ike, Roy, and a couple other Legendary heroes. Erinys has a larger chance of being a staff flier in the normal pool due to being the one introducing healing fliers to the series. But, as others have said, it's just as likely that she'll be lance flier #X. We won't know until it happens. IS could also choose to change things up and make Micaiah a flying healer that levitates in her Dawn Priestess class. It'd likely piss off a lot of people and fans, but it's a possibility. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

21 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

Micaiah gets plenty of love these days though. Elincia is sadly left in the dust a lot despite that she's a beautifully designed and written character. I feel like the main thing hurting her is the lack of availability of her games to the fanbase, so they don't know her that well. But that brings me to why I'm not sure how Micaiah gets the love she does because she's from one of the same games and has had LESS exposure to fans overall. Those people who haven't played Tellius wouldn't know her well either. I'm thankful IS still treats her well though, with how they gave her Awakening DLC and a seasonal Heroes alt, even if the fanbase doesn't

I mean one could argue that Micaiah’s single role caused a much larger impact on some people than Elincia’s dual role did. It certainly did for me, and I can vouch for several others who felt the same. Obviously this doesn’t make Elincia unappreciated or anything, but I don’t think it should be a surprise that some may prefer Micaiah over her. 

Also, don’t forget Micaiah was one of the most hated characters in the series for the longest time until the 3DS came along. Fans of her had to deal with some of the most ridiculous shit, including childish name calling (seriously, “Failcaiah”? Who came up with that? It’s not even clever). If prior to CYL someone would have told me Micaiah would make it to the Top 20 in an FE popularity poll, I would have thought that person was crazy. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 minutes ago, Jave said:

I mean one could argue that Micaiah’s single role caused a much larger impact on some people than Elincia’s dual role did. It certainly did for me, and I can vouch for several others who felt the same. Obviously this doesn’t make Elincia unappreciated or anything, but I don’t think it should be a surprise that some may prefer Micaiah over her. 

That would only apply to those who actually played the Tellius games though, and many haven't due to their inaccessibility.

17 minutes ago, Jave said:

Also, don’t forget Micaiah was one of the most hated characters in the series for the longest time until the 3DS came along. Fans of her had to deal with some of the most ridiculous shit, including childish name calling (seriously, “Failcaiah”? Who came up with that? It’s not even clever). If prior to CYL someone would have told me Micaiah would make it to the Top 20 in an FE popularity poll, I would have thought that person was crazy. 

That was then though, and it isn't the case anymore. I agree "Failcaiah" is a dumb and unclever name.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Hekselka said:

Louise looks a bit funny in her first Chibi art:

If I didn't know the character I would think that she's a Yandere with the way she's looking.

She looks a bit tipsy from Pent's bottle of champagne.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Ice Dragon said:

She looks a bit tipsy from Pent's bottle of champagne.

You just reminded me that this versiom of the duo is from before their marriage. Huh. I guess the ceremony in this Paralogue is for them then!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Anacybele said:

Oh yeah, and being Yune's vessel lessens Micaiah's importance because these are Yune's dialogue lines and appearances, Micaiah's body is just how she communicates. Micaiah herself has effectively been removed from the scenario.

This is really debatable. In Part 4 of RD there are still moments where Yune let's Micaiah take control of her body to talk with Sothe in base conversations and stuff and some plot points like the death of Lekain involve Micaiah directly so of course she needs to be herself here. Plus we discover stuff about Micaiah in part 4 and people talk about her. Like you know, Sanaki discovering her connection to her and being afraid to confront her about it. 

So she still is a big presence in Part 4, a presence that interacts with people. A presence that's felt. Oversadowed by Ike and Yune? True, but you can't say that she is removed from the scenario.

And to be fair even Elincia was overshadowed in Part 4 since she really has no role to play except being one of the royals fighting. Basically the same screen time as Tibarn or Nailah, if not less.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...