riariadne Posted December 4, 2008 Share Posted December 4, 2008 (edited) My 2nd tier list! I'm on a roll now! Now including fair supports. (Eph)=Ephraim's route (Eir)= Eirika's Route Epic Ephraim (Eph) Franz Seth Eirika (Eir) Moulder Artur Lute Duessel (Eph) Ephraim (Eir) High Cormag (Eph) Vanessa Gerik (Eir) Eirika (Eph) Joshua Tethys (Eir) Colm Gerik (Eph) Middle Forde Kyle Tana Gilliam Natasha Tethys (Eph) Ross Garcia Innes (Eir) Cormag (Eir) Saleh (Eir) Marisa (Eir) L'Arachel Low Duessel (Eir) Marisa (Eph) Rennac Myrrh Innes (Eph) Neimi Fail Ewan Saleh (Eph) Amelia Syrene Dozla Knoll Edited January 4, 2009 by Reinfleche Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEnd Posted December 4, 2008 Share Posted December 4, 2008 (edited) I don't remember Ross being so much better than the other trainees. It's pretty much the contrary, actually. At the least the other two have awesome potential if you're willing to babysit them. Edited December 4, 2008 by TheEnd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tino Posted December 4, 2008 Share Posted December 4, 2008 This list is... fairly crappy, really. Many characters have completely wrong placements, and you also forget to add in route-specific characters (Eir. Route Innes and Eph. Route Innes, for example). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fia Posted December 4, 2008 Share Posted December 4, 2008 I don't remember Ross being so much better than the other trainees.It's pretty much the contrary, actually. At the least the other two have awesome potential if you're willing to babysit them. This. And I suppose you never see an Amelia, who maxed on everything eh? Tana and L'Arachel are in middle? They are supposed to be in epic. =O Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duff Ostrich Posted December 4, 2008 Share Posted December 4, 2008 I'm no expert on FE8, but Duessel looks too low. His bases should easily help him be better than like, Ross and Garcia. Knoll should be in bottom tier. Saleh is also kinda low, but I think he's route dependent, so one version might be better than another. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judge Judy Posted December 4, 2008 Share Posted December 4, 2008 This list is... fairly crappy, really. Lets see you do better? Anyway, I think Joshua should be at Epic. Vanessa should be at middle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEnd Posted December 4, 2008 Share Posted December 4, 2008 This. FIA IS AGREEING WITH ME WHAT IS WRONG WITH THE WORLD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judge Judy Posted December 4, 2008 Share Posted December 4, 2008 This.And I suppose you never see an Amelia, who maxed on everything eh? No I guess I haven't. Amelia defense is not up to a General standard =/ Though her speed is amazing for a General. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEnd Posted December 4, 2008 Share Posted December 4, 2008 No I guess I haven't. Amelia defense is not up to a General standard =/ Though her speed is amazing for a General. You don't have to make her a General, though. She can still be a Paladin/Great Knight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judge Judy Posted December 4, 2008 Share Posted December 4, 2008 You don't have to make her a General, though. She can still be a Paladin/Great Knight. O yeah. I forgot about that I promoted her as a Paladin and she had good overall stats. I am not sure how good she is as a Great Knight =/ But I Amelia should at the middle. She is not that bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riariadne Posted December 4, 2008 Author Share Posted December 4, 2008 (edited) you have to baby her far too much for her to be useful, however. That is a definite low point for Amelia, and definitly Ewan. Ross can easily fit into the player's strategy if you use him right, which isn't too hard. Oh yeah, route specific characters. Dang. Edited December 4, 2008 by SunMoonSky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fruitloop Multipuck Posted December 4, 2008 Share Posted December 4, 2008 Are we allowing tower/ruins/monsters/arena use in this list, and if so, to what extent? It seems to me that we need to either allow support abuse or make this a "minimum turn tier list." Support abuse has no risk or penalty, but is very rewarding and takes little time and no effort. (It might even save you time in the long run by making future chapters easier and therefore taking less time to complete.) Since this game doesn't have rankings, I'm not inclined to care that my rather irrelevant turn counts are high as a result, unless getting a low turn count is the entire point of the list. And yeah, as said previously, some characters' join time is several chapters apart depending on Route, which makes a difference. Those characters would be Eirika, Ephraim, Cormag, Gerik, Marisa, Innes, Saleh, and Duessel. (Tethys too, but I'm not sure if her lost chapters make much of a difference - are there any characters she would be above in one case but not the other?) Splitting them by route is a better way of doing it than trying to find an average position between their different performances. Until the above are dealt with, most of the specific changes I could suggest wouldn't be worth much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riariadne Posted December 4, 2008 Author Share Posted December 4, 2008 (edited) Arena/Tower/Ruins use is not included at all. The only reason Joshua isn't in Epic is because he is locked to swords. I don't really think support should be included either. EDIT: Yeah, I don't really think Vanessa deserves epic, either, but she's the only flying unit for 7 chapters (pretty much 8 if you're on ephraim's route) so she's pretty great. Edited December 4, 2008 by SunMoonSky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fruitloop Multipuck Posted December 4, 2008 Share Posted December 4, 2008 I don't really think support should be included either. Buh-wha? I can see us not including support abuse - though we'd need a good reason for doing so - but not including supports at all? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mekkah Posted December 4, 2008 Share Posted December 4, 2008 (edited) Gerik is massively overhyped overall. He's kinda bleh on Ephraim route, and good on Eirika route, but nowhere near epic. imo, that is. Here's one I whipped up in 2 minutes. -God- Seth Franz Vanessa Ephraim [Eph] Moulder Natasha Tethys [Eir] -High- Arthur Lute Colm Ephraim [Eir] Duessel [Eph] Tethys [Eph] Kyle Forde Eirika [Eir] Gerik [Eir] Tana [Eir] Saleh [Eir] -Upper Mid- Cormag [Eph] Joshua Gerik [Eph] Tana [Eph] Eirika [Eph] Innes [Eir] Marisa [Eir] Myrrh -Lower Mid- Saleh [Eph] Garcia Cormag [Eir] Marisa [Eph] Ross Rennac -Low/Bottom- Duessel [Eir] Neimi L'Arachel Innes [Eph] Ewan Dozla Knoll Amelia Syrene -Good-For-A-Chapter- Orson Edited December 4, 2008 by Mekkah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destiny Hero Posted December 4, 2008 Share Posted December 4, 2008 Ewan and Amelia are absolutely great, Colm is hardly useful because of keys and Unlock staves, Eirika blows and is one of the worst Lords there is, Saleh is excellent and a great wall, Ross is one of the strongest units there is and as a Hero has excellent stats, Tethys is shit. I think that's a very biased list -_- And Moulder shouldn't be in "God" tier. He should be in "Supreme Jesusish Godlike Overlord Of Every Fire Emblem Game" tier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mekkah Posted December 4, 2008 Share Posted December 4, 2008 Destiny Hero, the fact that you make 2-3 useless rant/i give up/i got rng screwed topics every day is fine with me, but please stay out of tier list debates if you're going to post biased nonsense instead of actual numbers to back up your case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_____ Posted December 4, 2008 Share Posted December 4, 2008 (edited) Ewan and Amelia are absolutely great, Colm is hardly useful because of keys and Unlock staves, Eirika blows and is one of the worst Lords there is, Saleh is excellent and a great wall, Ross is one of the strongest units there is and as a Hero has excellent stats, Tethys is shit.I think that's a very biased list -_- I couldn't stop laughing. Ewan and Amelia join midway through the game, hugely underleveled, and with alright potential. Yeah, they're amazing. Keys and Unlock staves can steal, too, and have great avoid? Oh my. Quite the contrary. Eirika's the traditional swordmaster-ish lord, which means she has good avoid, good hit, and good critical. She also gets the Rapier, which boosts the latter, and her damage. Saleh has 8 base Def and 13 base Res at chapter 12 (Eirika). At the same level, Gilliam will have 11 more Defense and only 4 less Res. Mages are such a rare occcurance, it barely matters anyway. He joins at chapter 15 on Ephraim's route. That's pitiful. Ross joins 10 levels below everyone else, regardless of whether you raised the other units. A bit of a disadvantage. He gains levels quickly, though. Let's compare a level 7 Garcia with a level 1 Fighter Ross. Level 1 Fighter Ross: HP: 23 Str: 11 Skl: 6 Spd: 5 Lck: 11 Def: 5 Res: 2 Level 7 Fighter Garcia: HP: 30 Str: 10 Skl: 8 Spd: 7 Lck: 4 Def: 5 Res: 1 Ross is winning in Strength by 1, Luck by a fair amount (lollikethatmatters), and Res by 1. Garcia is winning in HP by 7, Skill by 2, and Speed by 2. They tie Defense. And that's being generous. It's unlikely Ross'll gain 10 levels while Garcia gains 3. He's not the "best unit evur". Dancing utility. 'Nuff said. Edited December 4, 2008 by ChaosNinji Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riariadne Posted December 4, 2008 Author Share Posted December 4, 2008 Will you stop arguing about that list and argue about MY LIST while we're on this topic? That'd be nice. m'kay? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judge Judy Posted December 4, 2008 Share Posted December 4, 2008 Prince Innes on FAIL! XD Nah, he is not that bad. His stats are not amazing but he is still a useful units. I think he should be on low/middle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tino Posted December 4, 2008 Share Posted December 4, 2008 There's so much wrong with your list it's hardly worth arguing, but whatever :/ What the hell is L'Arachel doing so high? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riariadne Posted December 4, 2008 Author Share Posted December 4, 2008 She's not that high. And if the list is bad, just say whats bad! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mekkah Posted December 4, 2008 Share Posted December 4, 2008 I'd argue about yours, but I'd basically be restating where I wanted the units when I already reflected that in my own list. But whatever! I do not believe Colm is Top tier. His fighting is underwhelming after ~Ch8-Ch9 or so unless he gets a Neimi support (and Neimi sucks), so he relies solely on his thief utility. This is nice and all, until you realize you can buy Door and Chest Keys in this game, and put them on some more durable unit you may not even be using normally. You could even use Tana for it and you'd be fine. There's very little to steal in FE8, and you have money coming out of your ears even without him stealing you gems and stuff, and no funds rank. Seth > Vanessa by a larger amount during early and midgame than vice versa. Especially when you consider that whenever Vanessa flies off, her supports disapoof. And she isn't really benefitting Moulder with her support until Moulder promotes, while Seth is benefitting Franz and Eirika/Cormag/whoever. Kyle and Forde are pretty much the same unit in a lot of regards. Kyle has the better affinity. And yet, Kyle is one space above Neimi in Low, while Forde enjoys a place in the middle of middle. ?_? What's Natasha doing in Fail? She is nearly identical to Moulder qua use, just 3 small chapters later. Sure, her supports could be argued as worse (but not by much), but 73329823 places lower? L'Arachel joins as a L3 unit when others are like somewhere between 14/0 and 20/1 (depending on team size). And unlike scum like Amelia, she doesn't gain more EXP than others, and she doesn't have a massive staff rank to spam something that actually gives her more than 20 EXP per player phase (she can't fight on enemy phase). How that is anywhere near good is beyond me. Yes, she has high growths. But she still has terrible durability and fairly bad supports until she catches up...wait, she can't catch up without wtfmassive babying. Innes and Tana are different enough in both routes to be split up. Innes especially. He's a mini-Jeigan for Eirika route, and he pretty much has Prf weapons (Neimi sucks and Gerik has D bows). In Eph route, he's just massively bad, but in Eir route he's good for a short while. What also works in his favor is dibs on Nidhogg, as well as _triple_ Mt on fliers. Myrrh as worst unit? She is useful. Being useful for 50 attacks is much much much much better than someone like Dozla, who isn't useful ever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riariadne Posted December 4, 2008 Author Share Posted December 4, 2008 (edited) dozla is the only nonflying unit who can cross water and mountains excluding ross. This tier list doesnt involve supports. There goes an argument against vannessa. Colm is massive win as an assassin, and he's the best candidate for one. and you cant buy door/ chest keys for a looong time in this game. myrrh massivly fails due to only having 50 attacks. and your tier list doesnt even include myrrh, so you're one to talk. Edited December 4, 2008 by SunMoonSky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fruitloop Multipuck Posted December 4, 2008 Share Posted December 4, 2008 This tier list doesnt involve supports. Why? >_> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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