Soul's FE7 character rating topic.

[Silvercrow]

The issue is that Karel's supports are all really slow. The only one I can imagine him MAYBE getting in the limited chapters that he's with you is with Guy, but even that wouldn't pass a C-rank I think. Assuming you're playing efficiently and not support whoring at the end of chapters, anyway.

Even if Harken's support bonuses are inferior, he gets 40+4 Isadora (problematic due to move difference, but), 25+3 Eliwood, 15+3 Lowen and 15+2 Marcus. Karel's best supports are 5+3 Guy and 25+2 LOLKarla.

Pretty sure all the characters in this topic are rated by efficiency, not ranks or especially potential, because otherwise comparison would be largely trivial.

[Junkhead]

Yes, it is indeed effecient play. In effeciet play, we don't don't favor a character massively, only so that he can turn out on par with the rest. It takes alot of time, and the efforts are usually a waste of time.

And you see, the fact Karel has better Spd doesn't mean he will have tons of Avoid. His Avo means nothing when enemies have 70~% Hit rates on him.

These are not opinions or personal experince, but instead, these ratings are based on facts and average stats.

[RNG Princess]

Poor Rebecca she's so down there :(

[Loki Laufeyson]

When you get a chance, do Priscilla and Fiora! (Florina should be ranked higher in my opinion but thats probably because shes my favorite out of the whole lot). Also do Karla! I actually finally got around to recruiting her and found her interesting (but a little lackluster).

About Bartre, hmmm. I used him and it did take a WHILE for him to get over the speed hump but once he does, hes reliable and has MAD HP. Not saying you should raise his score, just sayin. :P

[BK-201]

Who am I to argue with Serenes Forest but things like Harken > Karel is in my eyes opinion and not fact. Things like Supports unviable for Karel?

I mean really? for ranked runs perhaps but ranked runs isn't everything there is. If you forget about ranked runs for a moment and take character potential into account I'n sure you would agree Karel has FAR better support partners then Harken. Sure Harken one rounds more often due to his superior bases, but Karel evades more. Again Harken is better if you are looking at ranked runs, but if you take character potential into account it's not that simple. My point is that Harken -> Karel is not always the case and depends on how you play the game. Are you doing a HHM run and your goal is to have the best possible rank, then Harken > Karel. But If you are playing to have the best possible team(s) including supports then Karel > Harken.

Why don't I just arena abuse my units to 20/20 and assemble the team with the most potential? By this logic, anyone who doesn't end up with the best stats are inferior to those who do. The point of the rating topic is not to assess the end grade of the character but rather how well they can perform throughout the whole game.

[Tangerine]

Karel was so upset with his tier placement that he manifested himself into the real world and created an account on this site just to complain about it. Just jealous of Harken.

And Karel forbids us from getting Harken.

I don't think this should be given too much weight in a Karel rating, if any at all.

Edited October 26, 2010 by Tangerine

[Junkhead]

Well, I didn't actually weight it on him, as he could've gotten a slightly lower score because of that. 8]

Raven

Raven is so hardcore. He is the best foot unit.

Now, time to be more specific about what I just said...

Raven is one of the few who despite being good at doubling, actually hits hard, this is great. He doesn't have trouble onerounding with a Steel sword. And his Str picks up pretty quickly as well, so you can expect him to have great Str and Spd (Great base, with average Spd growth) to double and 1RKO most, if not all enemies that aren't bosses. The only problem he does have would have to be his low Def/Res and lack of a mount. This is his earlygame, mostly. A Lancereaver ought to help his WTD against those Peggies eqipped with Steel lances, and other enemies carrying lances. At least with other enemies he has WTA against, he'll be reliable on nice dodging skills. He is pretty glass-canony until his monsterous HP growths kicks in, and he can start absorbing hits like a man. (See: Dorcas)

Going through his supports, his only viable option would have to be Lucius, only because Priscilla usually goes around others to heal them until she gets a Physic staff. Raven and Lucius both get the advantage of getting full Defence and Accuracy from their support, not like the latter is needed when both of them have flawless Hit, but Defence defeneatly helps. And Avo and Critical Avo. boost is also great, seeing as they are both pretty bad at the Luck department, and may fear getting Critikilled (Mostly Lucius).

When your first Hero Crest arrives, remember Raven is the best option for it. He'll be come a onerounding machine in no time, and is really worth the raising.

!8.8

Guy

So far, I've rated two other Sacaens. Both who happen to be swordfighters, and don't really stand out at anything but doubling. Well, Guy isn't doing much better...

I find Guy to be a pretty average unit. For one thing, doubling isn't much of an issue, and there's the fact that he doesn't hit hard either, so he is prone to be dealing meh damage to enemies. What really gives him value as a combatant would have to be his Killing Edge at base, and with this, his offense boosts alot, and as long he can double, he has a pretty high chance of 1RKO'ing enemies. The problem is that this weapon might backfire on him, seeing as he has a hideous Con (Lol, 5 Con is what Lyn has, at least they should've gave him +1 since he's a male) and the Killing Edge slows him down by 2 AS, which might even have him struggle against some Brigands that exceed 7 AS, and don't even get me started on Cavaliers...

One thing he has going for him is avaibility. Since a few characters are having trouble getting kills of their own up to around Midgame, and he is the only one aside Marcus doubling, which is pretty good.

His durability is slightly above average. While he does have nice HP, backed up by that 75% growth and nice base, he has an average base Def, with a horrid 15% Def growth. It doesn't help that many enemies will be having WTD against him, which just lowers hope on his dodging chances. So you can expect him to survive 3 hits from most enemies. Not bad.

And at last, I'm going to talk about his supports. Guy's supports are all slow, and the fastest support he has is with Matthew, which would take him to stick around for 17 turns for only a C support. And that's if Matthew is even assumed to be deployed on every map, just to support him. It's a shame, seeing as Fire x Wind is pretty amazing, giving them full Atk, Accuracy and high Critical, Avo and Critical Avo.

The only time you might consider on having him get the Hero Crest is if you didn't recruit Raven, or if you're at a Drafting tournament and can't use Raven, but him instead, the latter being my case.

7

Edited December 19, 2010 by Soul

[Radiant Dragon]

The problem is that this weapon might backfire on him, seeing as he has a hideous Con (Lol, 5 Con is what Lyn has, at least they should've gave him +1 since he's a male) and the Killing Edge slows him down by 2 AS, which might even have him struggle against some Brigands that exceed 7 AS, and don't even get me started on Cavaliers...

What point are you trying to make here? I don't think Guy ever has doubling issues except against really fast bosses (Lloyd, maybe Maxime), and I don't believe that's what you're trying to say.

[Thor Odinson]

Do Haxtor next.

[Integrity]

Eight point eight for Raven? I'd say 9, EASY.

EDIT: Also, despite my general distaste for Myrmen of most flavors Guy definitely merits more than a 6.

Edited October 27, 2010 by Integrity

[Radiant Dragon]

Eight point eight for Raven? I'd say 9, EASY.

EDIT: Also, despite my general distaste for Myrmen of most flavors Guy definitely merits more than a 6.

I'd agree with Raven being a 9. 8.8 is close enough anyway, and his offense/eventual durability deserves it. Guy could move up too, since I find he is better than Canas or Isadora, both of whom got a 7.

It's really Soul's opinion, though.

[Darros]

Keep Guy a 6. As far as SMs/Myrms go hes not spectacular IMO.

[Silvercrow]

Nah, a 7 sounds good for Guy. He's not Raven level awesome, but his stats with HM boosts are relatively solid, he has good availability and the crit bonus as a Swordmaster isn't so bad.

I think he's definitely better than Isadora, who has only 2 more def at base 17 levels higher and only a 5% higher growth. Even with WTD, which doesn't happen too often after Erik's chapter except with annoying Pegs who are liable to target other people anyway, he's not dodging a whole lot less than Isadora, but has a lot more HP as a buffer. It's not like he requires a whole lot of babying to really be useful. Probably better than Canas, too, although Canas gets a few niche uses that are sorta neat.

And yea, 9 for Raven. 8.8 is such a weird number anyway.

I think Lyn could go up a bit too, but I'm not one of those people that cares enough to argue.

Edited October 28, 2010 by Silvercrow

[Blasied]

I think 8.8 might be an attempt to annoy people.

[Integrity]

I think 8.8 might be an attempt to annoy people.

I suspected the same, but he put HHM Sain at 8.8 and that wasn't a particularly trollish move.

[Life]

Are you guys debating between a 6 and 7 for Guy?

8. Easily.

With the exception for Marcus and possibly Hector (depends on where he's going since he seizes), Guy is your earlygame offensive machine. 17 Atk with the Killing Edge along with 36 Crit at base level (level 3, mind you) is absolutely nuts. 6 Def 15% growth is obviously terrible but it is backed up by 25 HP and 75% growth which can leave him with 38 HP and 8~9 Def by the time he hits 20/0. That's certainly manageable since he was created to be a dodge tank. That Matthew support is easier than it looks to build since Guy will have 2~3 turns at least in his joining chapter, possibly up to 7 in 13x, possibly 5 or 6 in 14 (both work over the pirates from the southeast) and be Matthew's guard in 15, giving another 3 or so since Matthew will die otherwise. That's a C before Lyn's team even joins and it is perfectly conceivable.

Guy can be clutch if you can use him right. If you toss him into 10 enemies and expect him to survive ala Raven style, then he's definitely got a chance to die.

[Junkhead]

The problem is, the Killing Edge doesn't last forever. And that's all he really has going for him. He's having trouble getting to double a few Cavaliers at Ch 13 & 14, and he's facing lots of lances that have good Hit rates on him. I can't give him such a score when he doesn't do wonders outside of his Killing Edge paradise. Sure, he might serve as a dodge tank once he promotes and has a C/B support with Matthew, but the problem is getting him there when he has heavy with Raven.

I'll actually consider raising him. The reason I see Canas/Isadora > Him was because they both have 1-2 range and better utilty (Isadora joins as a promoted mounted unit and has very useful combat right off the bat, and Canas can just gain a few levels and be a decent fighter and healer)

Edited October 30, 2010 by Soul

[Parrhesia]

The way I figure it, Guy has the duration of his 20-use Killing Edge to become a good unit. If he can't stand up on his own two feet with, like, a Steel Sword before it explodes, then he ain't worth it.

Often, the Edge breaks earlier than you might like.

Also, the fucked up tooth pear thing says 'statment'.

Edited October 30, 2010 by Furetchen

[Tangerine]

HHM Guy starts with 13 AS and only gets lowered to 11 (Marcus' base) with Killing Edge, anything he can't double, nobody else can either. Unless you got your Matthew a bunch of levels anyway, but even then his offense is worse than Guy's so you can't exactly hold that against him.

In other words, everything Guy can't one round isn't getting one rounded in the first place, with the exception of a few units Guy doubles and still can't one round; Marcus can kill those, and Hector in Armor units' case. I don't think Hector can one shot cavs even with Wolf Beil, or Oswin with Horseslayer for that matter.

Edited October 30, 2010 by Tangerine

[Narga_Rocks]

I'm shocked that...

Anyway, I miss 3x effectiveness. Unless there are some other changes for the American Version from the Japanese, Hector with his prf must be somewhat nuts for a short time in that version. Eliwood and Lyn face wtd against armors and most cavs, so they are less nuts, but wow. 33 mt weapon against lance wielding armors and cavs. Such a shame they took that away. Good news for player unit pegs, bad news for using effective weapons on enemies.

[Anouleth]

I have no idea how you can give Guy only 0.5 more points than Lyn. He has at bases:

+7HP

+3STR

+3SKL

+2SPD

+4DEF

+1RES

And a lower base level, a lower join time, and a more readily available promotion item.

Edited October 30, 2010 by Mr. Know-it-all-Anouleth

[Thor Odinson]

Lyn does have, however, a whole 10 chapters that she can level up in before HHM without affecting HHM ranks.

Also may bring a White Gem depending if you A-rank'd her mode's funds or not.

[RNG Princess]

I want to hear what Louise gets ^_^ I think she belongs close to Isadora. I'm quite shocked with Isadora's grade btw, I never knew she'd be considered good ^^'. Also isn't she a good candidate for the body ring?

[Thor Odinson]

Rate Pent after Louise. :3

[RNG Princess]

rate them together as a couple they should do everything together forever (except when you want to deploy one and no the other)!

Edited October 30, 2010 by Queen_Elincia